When does a delivery become NOT a delivery?

[vintique*violet]

So I have never had an issue with Royal Mail.

However, an item due to be delivered today was indeed delivered ( sent signed for) ... checked RM website for details and the photo for proof of delivery is packages on the doorstep! With a " squiggle" in the signed for box. 

My question is firstly I did not  think RM posties could do this when requiring a signature. 

Secondly - if this package is now " stolen" from the doorstep and buyer claims INR where do I stand? 

When does a delivery become NOT a delivery? 

[susapric-68]

Signed for is pointless these days, most posties just sign it. Best to go with track24/48 and it's cheaper.

For your second question the tracking shows delivered and that will be enough if an INR case is open, make sure you have uploaded tracking to the order

[tressygirl]

All eBay require for ' proof of delivery',  is for the seller to enter a tracking number into any case opened, if that shows delivery,  seller does not have to refund.  

We hear here often,  too often,  that items are stolen when on view to those ' thieving fingers' passing, but a tracking number showing initial delivery, then no refund will be forthcoming from eBay.  Home insurance perhaps payment providers may help. The latter a little doubtful if delivery is shown.

Signatures I'm afraid do not count,  as anyone can sign,  it doesn't have to be the recipient,  unless the item I believe has to be over £750 pounds in value and the seller has paid for the correct insurance protection for it, then the recipient has to sign for delivery.  Again tracking for eBay,  is what counts.

@vintique*violet 

[*vyolla*]

If the buyer opens an eBay item not received claim you'll likely win it, if they appeal then you may not.

If your buyer issues a not as described chargeback you should be covered by eBay Seller protection there, but the delivery evidence a little flimsy so I couldn't say for sure how that would go.

Here's hoping that your buyer gets to their doorstep before anyone else does. 

[vintique*violet]

Thank you...

It was sent Tracked 48 Signed for ( which means signature required) and is an extra cost., since Signed for reduced their insurance to £20. I only use Tracked 24/48 or Special delivery for all my items even if I have to part or fully ( free postage) fund it.  

I always upload tracking on the order the day it is posted so there is no confusion. 

[susapric-68]

Just out of interest where did you see that about insurance? I sometimes use tracked 48 and the insurance is the same for tracked 48 and tracked 48 signed for, upto £150. I buy mine from the RM site

[vintique*violet]

Thank you...

We hear here often,  too often,  that items are stolen when on view to those ' thieving fingers' passing, but a tracking number showing initial delivery, then no refund will be forthcoming from eBay.  Home insurance perhaps payment providers may help. The latter a little doubtful if delivery is shown.

If that is all eBay require and the recipient does not have their item in their hand ( as stolen due to packages being left on doorsteps etc ) then they have to bear the loss? I do not think that is fair do you? 

I wonder how many sellers are pushed to refund due to this to save from receiving a negative feedback? 

My fingers are crossed that they come home soon and remove said parcel indoors. 

[vintique*violet]

Not sure if you are directing this to me or Tressygirl re- insurance 

Yes Tracked 48 covers up to £150 with or without a signature. A signature supposed to be extra precaution and I use this when posting to London or Flats mainly. 

RM Signed for ( recorded delivery as was known) reduced their insurance to £20 - as told to me by postoffice lady months ago which is why I changed my choice of post to Tracked 48. I have used signed for second class for some items low in value but like the Tracked 48. 

[podlingsmum2007]

If I was the seller I would send a message to the buyer alerting them to their item being left on their doorstep and the time it was logged as being left. 

[tressygirl]

Nope,  I do not think it fair @vintique*violet   but it's a sad,  sad sign of our times just how many items we hear here are being stolen.

As above , all eBay need from the seller is proof it was delivered,  and that's with that vital tracking number.

Fair or not, neither eBay nor the seller can be responsible for where the postie or courier leaves an item.

Though I do believe,  if it was a RM delivery they insist on items being left in  safe place, if proved otherwise, I believe RM is open to compensation here, could be wrong! 😐

[vintique*violet]

Yes I have done this with a screenshot of the delivery ... thank you. 

[vintique*violet]

It certainly is not fair - 

Safeplace? A doorstep? 

Incidentally does the buyer have to request item to be delivered in a safe place ( if they have one) or do RM or any postal courier  just consider what is? 

I have never had an issue until today and it has annoyed me as it is not a run of the mill cheap item. 

[johnwash1]

I've taken to messaging my buyers at time of sale, not only thanking them, but also asking whether someone will be in or whether they'd like to tell me a safe place to leave it if necessary.

And despite what Evri/Hermes used to think a reasonable option, back when I used them, I've never ever had a buyer tell me "Pop it in my recycling bin, that's a really good place!".

[vintique*violet]

Well the item is as described in full , and it was delivered and signed for by what I believe to be a postman as it is left on the doorstep. I have screenshot this  from the RM website and sent it to the buyer.

There is absolutely no way I am refunding or eBay taking monies from me when I have completed my end of the transaction especially when I have paid RM extra for a signature on delivery which is supposed to be from the recipient. 

I wonder when the " funds held" after delivery,  how this will be exploited! 

[4_bathrooms]

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@vintique*violet wrote:

I have never had an issue until today

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Has the buyer involved actually opened a case?

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@vintique*violet wrote:

Incidentally does the buyer have to request item to be delivered in a safe place ( if they have one)

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No, they don't. As per Royal Mail:

"Can you leave my item in a Safeplace if I haven’t made a specific request?

If you are not at home to accept delivery, we may deliver your item to a Safeplace location at the address without a specific instruction from you. In that case, it will only be if our Postperson deems that location to be within our guidelines (see “What is acceptable as a ‘Safeplace’?).

If our Postperson knows you are a vulnerable customer, they will always try to take this into account when choosing a Safeplace for your item and position it in an easily accessible location for you."

Note that elsewhere in that guidance RM state that a doorstep would not be considered a "Safeplace" and anything requiring a signature on delivery is not supposed to be left in one. However, unless your buyer actually opens an INR case there's nothing to worry about.

[vintique*violet]

I always message and thank them but have never asked if they have a " safe place" ... something to consider perhaps...in the past I have had a couple of buyers asking  not to post until a certain date as they then could guarantee they would be in or back from holiday etc. No problem except it messes with the " post by" date and expected delivery date on the system.

Evri delivered an item to me last week, it didn't come through my door or a card left but it was found behind the bin in the wet?!?    Luckily the item was not damaged as the seller had protected it with correct packing but I was so annoyed. If I can,  I do not purchase anything whereby they use Evri or Yodal ( particularly on eBay) but on this occasion I was not aware of the postal service used.  ( it wasn't from eBay by the way). 

[department28]

I always thought a RM signed for item had to be signed for by someone at the address, otherwise they would take it away & leave an attempted delivery card.

This does not seem to be the case these days. Perhaps since the pandemic, it is all a bit hit & miss... I get signed for items left in the porch, with no attempt made to get a signature. I don't mind our postie doing that - I'm usually in, so there's not much chance of anyone getting into the porch before I do, but I would not be happy if it had been squiggled for by the postie & just left on the doorstep.

Perhaps your buyer has a fairly secluded doorstep, but it is a risk... and if the buyer has paid for a signed service, that is what they should get.

[vintique*violet]

No they haven't as I do not think the buyer is aware it has been delivered to their doorstep. 

I have sent a screenshot taken from the RM website to let them know so hopefully they can retrieve it when they are home or perhaps they haven't heard the knock at the door? 

The image actually shows two parcels they received today, mine is at the bottom of the other one. 

Thank you so much for the information , particularly the doorstep not being considered a safe place... which of course it is not. 

[vintique*violet]

I thought the same re " signature" must be by recipient to ensure actually delivered correctly.. to just leave on the doorstep in open view and the postie sign for it,  is just plain wrong. 

It was sent Tracked 48 signature required ( sorry not signed for as in recorded mail, I actually meant it requires a signature) . I paid the extra for the signature the buyer only paid the normal flat rate cost for Tracked 48.

It seems it is hit and miss and postal services are not providing what is actually paid for. I get its a busy season, and would not mind too much if it was a cheap item ( albeit it should not happen) it was not and that  I chose to send it in a reinforced box with waterproof packaging... I am relieved about that at least.  

[department28]

My Royal Mail Signed For® item arrived without a signature being taken

Please note:

Signature on delivery was reinstated on 1 May 2022. Claims for failure to obtain a signature will only be considered for items delivered from this date.

Confirmation of delivery can be viewed at royalmail.com/track-your-item.

You can still claim the fee refund if we’ve delivered a Royal Mail Signed For® item without confirming the item has been delivered at royalmail.com/track-your-item. Make your claim here. 

This appeared on the Royal Mail Personal Customers Help Centre. I'm not sure how up to date the info is, but thought it might be useful.

With more than one delivery service leaving a parcel on your buyer's doorstep today, it just shows how easy it would be for the first parcel/s to be taken. Photographic evidence would prove the RM parcel was delivered, but it wouldn't stop it being stolen. That's what the 'signed for' is for!