Upcoming ‘Buyer Protection Fees’

[lady4838]

I’m a member for 14 years - I have today complained fiercely to EBay with regards to 4% + 75p charge on each item purchased as we all know this is a Back Door way of recovering the Seller Fees which were scrapped recently - Buyers already have adequate protection - as to payment 2 days after delivery - we’re at the mercy of Royal Mail to scan all  items when collected (not guaranteed) 😡

 Fellow  members I urge you to let your disproval known - SHAME ON YOU Ebay😡😡

[traintime5qgd]

sml192,

To quote from eBay message "For example, when they see an item for £20, the fee of £1.49 will already be part of the price."

I agree with your calculations 4% of £20 = 80p + 75p = £1.55.

However it would appear that eBay are not even capable of simple maths!!!!!!

[trevdbowler]

Has Overseas Mailing been mentioned ?   I sell mainly low-ish value philatelic lots, some of which are mailed overseas at the 'letter' rate of £2.80.    Come March, we'll be forced into 'Tracked' mailing which is an extra £5+, thus limiting the viability of Overseas sales to maybe £50+, where packages are likely to be larger anyway.
 Goodbye to my oversea customers😢.

[trevdbowler]

...also the selling price on Ebay for 'new GB postage stamps' will soon drop like a stone... and that's a big market that has gained Ebay good FVF's in the past.
I wonder if Ebay have joined forces with the prospective new foreigner who is taking over Royal Mail to curb usage of stamps  ?

[twin--turbo]

Parcel Businesses are also going to be hit by this and Jobs lost.

Parcel2Go, Interparcel, ParcelMonkey... All provide intermediary services that many Ebay Users use for Convenience.  Once the Simple Delivery is introduced their market will reduce.

[paulthewoodman92]

It's 4% of £18.51 not £20 I think you'll find it's how they've done that calculation ?Sent from my Galaxy

[chris-5643]

Ebay would have been better to just reimpose sellers fees as they were. As it is they've not only made it more difficult for buyers and sellers, they've also potentially shot themselves in the foot:

Your example:

Item price set by the seller.  £20

Buyer Protection fee variable (4% of £20).  £0.80

Buyer Protection flat fee.  £0.75

Price that buyer sees for the listing

£21.55 + postage

This puts the price at above £20, which would have been set on the basis that's the most people psychologically will want to pay - plus it's inside the max £20 search band.

Ultimately, despite what people may claim on these forums, what is going to drive sellers away is if stuff gets too hard to sell. There's a lot of stuff out there and it's already difficult, so having a load of zombie listings just above your intended price point for months on end is not good business for anyone.

I also a charity eBay page and am considering (now reconsidering!) moving into selling as a business on eBay - unfortunately this kind of problem is not just confined to eBay. Selling for the charity pretty much ground to a halt six months ago due to just this kind of thing i.e. shifting goalposts by other agencies too. It's impossible to plan long-term, or even medium term if the fundamentals keep changing. It's just not an environment conducive to selling successfully.

[jbrusby]

"This puts the price at above £20, which would have been set on the basis that's the most people psychologically will want to pay - plus it's inside the max £20 search band."

This is exactly the problem eBay are creating. They are putting the onus on the seller to a) understand what extra charges are going to be added to their chosen asking price, and b) be able to calculate what those extra charges will be in order to set their asking price at a point where the price as it appears to buyers is not excessively high. For example, if the seller had bought an item for £60 and knows it's still worth almost that (perhaps having seen others selling for £55 on the site) they might set their asking price at £55. But if they don't know about the fees or haven't calculated them before setting their price, they won't figure that when the listing goes live customers will see £55 + £0.75 + 4% + £3.39 (tracked postage), so £61.37. Their listing will then get ignored because it's too high a price and the seller may not realise.

But in order to set their chosen asking price at a point which will appear to the buyer as £55, the seller will have to do some more complicated maths to work out exactly how much lower their asking price needs to be in order for it to total £55 when all the fees and postage are added on (ie. around £48.90). Most sellers won't do the sums and will just set their chosen price at a round figure, so there are going to be a lot of oddly priced items all over eBay once fees are added on. 

This happens a lot on Vinted, where the seller thinks they've set a fair asking price but hasn't considered the added buyer's fee and high postage cost on top, which the buyer will see and is then put off buying because the price is uncompetitive - and in some case it takes the final price above RRP.

[hollyh321]

98% of my old items I’m selling are low cost so I use standard RM parcels. The insurance cover is up to £20 which is ideal.

in 20 years I’ve never had to claim on that insurance but it’s peace of mind. With the new rules, if I price an odd item at just under £20 and use my usual method, I’m wondering what would happen if I had to claim for non-delivery?
For the sale, I would presumably only receive my asking price but the sale would be for over £20? What would my sales invoice show and would RM accept the sale was for under their limit, even though the buyer actually paid over £20?

So many questions, so few answers!!

[lucy_farmer]

'......and use my usual method, I’m wondering what would happen if I had to claim for non-delivery?.....'

Well, if you're using 'the new rules i.e. Simple Delivery (which all private sellers will be pushed into in the end) it will be Ebay who have the contract with the post office or evri or whoever, therefore it will be ebay's job to sort out any claims.

Using simple delivery; you sell something (no postage price attached) ebay get the buyer to pick the postage service they want (from the ones they are *offered*; they can't just pick any random courrier they like...) ebay send *you* the postage label that the buyer has paid for. Ebay has bought this label from the delivery company, so ebay has the contract with them and has to deal with any postage problems- not you.

Even if the parcel *never* gets marked as delivered, you, the seller, will eventually get your money. Ebay just sit on it for 2 weeks.

(I think ebay see getting 2 weeks worth of interest on customers money as a worthwhile return on having to deal with the postage risks....)

[retro-boy]

I cannot believe that eBay is introducing this buyer protection program….

This offers nothing more than is in place now BUT ……

1) Increases the price of all items sold by private sellers on eBay by more than 2% PLUS .75p

2) Makes the selling of smaller items totally unfeasible - increasing the price of a £1 item by 79% - Wow?

EBay states that it’s free to sell on eBay but all they have done is move the transaction fee ..????????

3) makes the private seller WAIT DAYS / WEEKS after the item has been delivered to get their money ….. I send items abroad NOT via the global shipping programme but via Royal Mai.  It could around 2 weeks to deliver to Canada and such places …. Are you crazy???

4) What if a seller needs the postage money to be able to post the item - Did anyone think of that?

We are just private sellers... we are not a business .. we dont have the recourses that a business might have.

EBay has forgotten that it was BUILT on private sellers!!!  I often am asked to sell something for my friends as they know I eBay … I won’t be doing this anymore as I will have to tell them to wait weeks for their money!!!

My original eBay account was created back in 1999 … I have never been so DISGUSTED at what eBay has become as I am right now.

What a massive backtrack  … if you want to be Amazon or Vinted then please drop the eBay name.

Re-apply the Sales fee as at least we all know where we stood and it didnt feel like you are being mugged off and deceived..... 

[vjbuystuff]

I share your views and wrote a letter to the UK general manager on Friday (the dya of the announcement).

I urge everyone to do the same.

Eve Williams,

General Manager \ Vice President,

eBay Commerce UK Ltd.

1 More London Place

London, SE1 2AF, 

United Kingdom

[johnwash1]

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@jbrusby wrote:

"This puts the price at above £20, which would have been set on the basis that's the most people psychologically will want to pay - plus it's inside the max £20 search band."

This is exactly the problem eBay are creating. They are putting the onus on the seller to a) understand what extra charges are going to be added to their chosen asking price, and b) be able to calculate what those extra charges will be in order to set their asking price at a point where the price as it appears to buyers is not excessively high. For example, if the seller had bought an item for £60 and knows it's still worth almost that (perhaps having seen others selling for £55 on the site) they might set their asking price at £55. But if they don't know about the fees or haven't calculated them before setting their price, they won't figure that when the listing goes live customers will see £55 + £0.75 + 4% + £3.39 (tracked postage), so £61.37. Their listing will then get ignored because it's too high a price and the seller may not realise.

But in order to set their chosen asking price at a point which will appear to the buyer as £55, the seller will have to do some more complicated maths to work out exactly how much lower their asking price needs to be in order for it to total £55 when all the fees and postage are added on (ie. around £48.90). Most sellers won't do the sums and will just set their chosen price at a round figure, so there are going to be a lot of oddly priced items all over eBay once fees are added on. 

This happens a lot on Vinted, where the seller thinks they've set a fair asking price but hasn't considered the added buyer's fee and high postage cost on top, which the buyer will see and is then put off buying because the price is uncompetitive - and in some case it takes the final price above RRP.

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Complicated maths?  Really?  Or some basic arithmetic and rough estimate.  And someone challenged in that department can just create a spreadsheet: left column going up in steps of £1, say, and alongside the resulting 4%+75p added on.  Someone who's so far down the bell curve that they can't cope with that probably shouldn't be risking selling on a platform they understand so little.

If only the problem of getting Simple Delivery to collect from homes could be solved, everything would be a non-issue.  I'd love to hear whether Vinted and other such sites have solved that problem, it would renew my hope for ebay.

[sml192]

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@johnwash1 wrote:

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@jbrusby wrote:

"This puts the price at above £20, which would have been set on the basis that's the most people psychologically will want to pay - plus it's inside the max £20 search band."

This is exactly the problem eBay are creating. They are putting the onus on the seller to a) understand what extra charges are going to be added to their chosen asking price, and b) be able to calculate what those extra charges will be in order to set their asking price at a point where the price as it appears to buyers is not excessively high. 

Complicated maths?  Really?  Or some basic arithmetic and rough estimate.  And someone challenged in that department can just create a spreadsheet: left column going up in steps of £1, say, and alongside the resulting 4%+75p added on.  Someone who's so far down the bell curve that they can't cope with that probably shouldn't be risking selling on a platform they understand so little.

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There is no maths required at all, the calculation will be done by eBay and sellers will be able to see the breakdown when creating their listing or for an existing listing:

How is the Buyer Protection fee added to my item price?

When setting the item price, UK-based private sellers will see the Buyer Protection fee amount added to the total item price that buyers will see on the listing. Sellers will be able to see the fee amount before completing the listing.

Where do I see the Buyer Protection fee in my listings?

When listing your item, you will see the Buyer Protection fee amount added to your listing price. You can also view the fee amount from your Active listings.

@jbrusby 

[vintique*violet]

I agree with your post -  eBay have thought of the postage situation- 

4) What if a seller needs the postage money to be able to post the item - Did anyone think of that?

We are just private sellers... we are not a business .. we dont have the recourses that a business might have.

'pending" funds held can be accessed by the seller to purchase ebay postal labels and for refunds. 

This, I feel, is for when they make Simple Delivery compulsory...  gone will be the days of purchasing from the post office direct... they want to keep your funds and for you to  " recycle" them into their system - postage, purchases etc... ( after all haven't they said that small private sellers are their biggest buyers?) I do not think that will apply anymore to appease their shareholders. 

You/us are actually being " managed " ... 

[akemp1]

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@lucy_farmer wrote:

Using simple delivery; you sell something (no postage price attached) ebay get the buyer to pick the postage service they want (from the ones they are *offered*; they can't just pick any random courrier they like...) ebay send *you* the postage label that the buyer has paid for. Ebay has bought this label from the delivery company, so ebay has the contract with them and has to deal with any postage problems- not you.

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My concern is that ebay will offer them couriers that are inconvenient to me (even if they are geographically close as the crow flies) due to limitations in opening hours, nearby parking, etc. Or they will have me driving around multiple locations each morning as each buyer selected a different carrier. I'm unclear if I can limit the choice of carriers to avoid the carriers that I know regularly turn down parcels as many of the staff are not trained to accept them.

At the moment it's super easy to buy the discounted postage via ebay in the evening and use my local post office on the way to work where I can easily park outside and they are open very long hours for my early starts. Around half my stuff goes at RM large letter rate so it's the natural choice. I'd only use another carrier by exception on bulky or heavy items.

Selling multiple items in the same day is probably a theoretical problem as I expect my sales will dry up with the new buyer tax. I expect my junk is going to take a lot longer to shift. I'll probably move away from selling low value things individually and more towards grouping them as job lots.

[vjbuystuff]

the biggest problem for me with any forced imposition of simple delivery is anything i have to send via parcelforce (which are many items).  parcelforce drop off is simply not feasible for me, the nearest drop off is 21 miles each way, and about 90 minutes driving.

currently i use the parcelforce website, which is linked to my ebay account to arrange collections, the parcelforce van goes past my house at least once per day anyway so its reliable and eco friendly.

the parcelforce website also seems to provide more consistent prices, and, obtains all the consignment details directly from my eBay account so no mistakes in addresses etc.  

most of the time the tracking details from parcelforce go back into the ebay transaction details just fine, but, frequently ebay doesnt update delivery confirmation from parcelforce... ie, i can see confirmation of delivery on the parcelforce website but not in ebay.

[valueaddedresource]

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@jckl1957 wrote:

Simple Delivery has already been introduced several weeks ago, and is available for eligible listings.

Can you let me know where you have got the information that it is definitely being forced upon sellers in March?

A lot of people are saying it will be made mandatory in the first quarter of the year but I have not seen anything which substantiates this apart from 'this is what the CEO said' but no quote and no source.

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@jckl1957  @colin_colyton  @troopster2525-per and anyone else looking for a source and quote for this:

 eBay has not made any public announcements to sellers about it or updated their policy pages yet, but contrary to what eBay community staff have said in the weekly chat, statements made by the CEO of a publicly traded company during earnings calls are in fact "official comms" and should be taken as such by both investors and the company's customer-base unless/until additional "official comms" to the contrary are made publicly available.

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Chat-with-the-eBay-Community/Weekly-Chat-with-the-eBay-Community-Tea...

Here's what Iannone said on the Q3 2024 earnings call at the end of October, and for additional background this was part of his prepared remarks, not an off the cuff answer to analysts in the Q&A segment - which means this part of the presentation would have been scripted in advance and reviewed by legal, compliance, investor relations and other relevant internal stakeholders before the call.

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4731184-ebay-inc-ebay-q3-2024-earnings-call-transcript

With managed shipping, we are completely overhauling our shipping experience for C2C sellers in the UK in two phases. The first phase completed in early October, extended the simplified shipping experience we first rolled out in pre-owned apparel to all categories. Within the new native listing flow, UK C2C sellers now see a consolidated list of shipping options based on the estimated package size and weight. And since implementing this change, we have observed a significant reduction in time spent on shipping in a listing flow.

The second phase of managed shipping; radically simplifies the experience and creates a new revenue stream for eBay. Similar to managed payments and eBay international shipping, Managed shipping leverages our scale and expertise to create a better experience for customers while generating incremental revenue and operating income dollars. When listing eligible products sellers simply confirm the pre-selected package size and eBay handles the rest.

Buyers received competitive shipping rates and sellers are fully protected against loss or damage. Managed shipping is currently live for C2C pre-owned apparel listing in the UK. In Q4, we plan to expand managed shipping horizontally on an opt-out basis, before mandating the program for eligible items listed by C2C sellers during Q1 of 2025.

[dala8593]

I fully agree
I also like to support my local post office and remain in control of the whole dispatch process
I’ve had two bad experiences with parcel locker and petrol / shop drop off points who rejected an item because they didn’t have space
I’ve complained by phone to ebay and the pleasant representative agreed and said nobody is happy
Later I had a reply to say my complaint had been closed and if i didn’t like it I could contact the financial ombudsman they even gave me the phone number
I for one have removed all my low cost listings I might have sent second class untracked it’s just
Sent from my iPhone

[lucy_farmer]

'My concern is that ebay will offer them couriers that are inconvenient to me (even if they are geographically close as the crow flies) due to limitations in opening hours, nearby parking, etc....'

That's one of my big worries as well.

And I've no smart phone so 'drop-box' postage isn't going to happen.

(I know I'm Cnut 'holding back the tide' with my refusal of some bits of the modern world, but I have enough self knowledge to know that if I get a smart-phone I'll never read a book again ,when I've got the whole world in my pocket... 😞)

I may be calling it quits on ebay when 'Simple Delivery' becomes mandated.

[andreaneilcmc]

The V wagging the dog - "Every empire has it's day."