The Death of Auctions?

[ett1954]

Has anyone seen this gem to come soon in the summer update to affect auctions (my bold italics):

Reducing unpaid items

Placing a bid

Additionally, buyers on select auctions will be required to set up a preferred payment method and postal address before they can place a bid. After winning an auction, they’ll have one hour to adjust their order or payment details, otherwise we’ll automatically process their order using their preferred payment method. No action is required from the seller.

These changes will help to improve the auction process on eBay by providing buyers with the ability to decide how they want to pay, whilst also ensuring that sellers receive payment for their sales. The goal is to foster a more efficient and dependable experience for the entire eBay community.

From FAQs:

No changes are needed with how you set up your listings. You should expect to see fewer unpaid items on items sold through auctions as we test and launch changes.

You can still combine multiple purchases from the same buyer in a single shipment, but please be aware that a buyer may be automatically charged for postage costs for each individual item when payments are processed.

As a buyer, you may be prompted to provide a payment method and select a postal address prior to placing a bid on an auction. You'll have the ability to edit these details before the auction ends. If you win the auction, you'll be given a one hour period to make any changes. If no changes are made, we’ll automatically charge your default payment method. 

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There is no opt out mentioned for this 'feature'; without one it will be the end of auctions on eBay for me.  A few things immediately spring to mind.  I don't have problems with non-payers but I do have regular, long-standing buyers of 8 years or more who bid on items spanning across 10 days or even longer.  Combining multiple wins into one order is a necessity; especially with lower value items.

Many of my buyers are international and on a completely different time zone - what they win can determine how and where they want it sent (forwarding agents, etc.)  How do they respond in an hour if an auction is finishing at 3 am for them, or if they are at work, travelling, etc.

I had thought eBay had learnt their lesson from the debacle of immediate payments on Buy it Now listings.  My acceptance level from offers sent is now virtually nil.  What I do foresee is an increase in 'remorse' returns for business sellers running auctions in some sectors.  Sure we will see a lot less non-payers ..... this will be in conjunction with a lot less sales.

One final question for eBay - where is this supposed feedback you received stating sellers want this ........ nobody has asked me.  Has anyone on these boards been asked?  Please publish this data along with the agency you commissioned to carry out the research.

[amphibolous]

There is a new thread in the US forums too, and people are upset over there, just as they are here.

Somebody noted that if you go to your buyer requirements (https://www.ebay.com/bmgt/buyerrequirements) there is a checkbox stating "Require buyers to provide a payment method before they place a bid ".  (please note: this specific checkbox doesn't seem to appear on eBay.co.uk, just one for requiring a payment method before making an offer - this suggests to me that it has just been added, but not worldwide yet).

That perhaps is the ticket to opting out of this shortsightedness. eBay should have made it much clearer, and we will have to wait until they add it to eBay.co.uk, although possibly by selecting the checkbox on eBay.com, it will also apply it to the UK site (and elsewhere) as well?!

[dch2112011]

Just Curious but as a seller how would you know if a buyer who won an auction at 5am  would win another auction a few hours later or a few days later or even a few weeks later ?

Even if they messaged you there is no guarantee that they will not be outbid ? 

So rather than secure a sale by receiving payment you would rather wait until all the auctions end to see if a buyer won more than one item to give them a discount ?

Surely the best way would be to put all the items that  the buyer  wanted to purchase in one job lot BIN with a discounted  price for combined postage - end the auctions and let him buy the lot and pay immediately !

[dch2112011]

My standpoint is simple to put forward a balancing view on claims made by members concerning a new system which none of them has experianced.

An alternative  viewpoint is always a good thing to stimulate discussion rather than simply sensationalise the doom and gloom aspect.

Some posters with views have made some very pertinent and valid points  which are supported and are noteworthy some just spiral into we hate ebay no matter what - which often makes me think why do they use ebay as a medium for selling let alone take the time to express themselves.

The problem is that when a different viewpoint is written the members castigating ebay love to try and dismiss the different opinion which is fine but fairly unproductive.

And yes we have a selling account which generate on average about  200 sales a day - so not large nor tiny.

[insidethe93]

Some card providers, perhaps all, allow a maximum number of transactions per day before automatically declining payments. They won't tell you what the maximum is.

[plpmr]

"Are you advocating being on ebay 24 hours a day in order to bid on something?" 

nowhere have I even suggested that, rather that the one hour is not properly thought out.

"As a none paid Experienced Mentor, were you consulted as a body about this new process?"

No.

[ett1954]

"Surely the best way would be to put all the items that  the buyer  wanted to purchase in one job lot BIN with a discounted  price for combined postage - end the auctions and let him buy the lot and pay immediately !"

That only works, and can be useful, if you currently have no bids on the items.  It is not good practice to cancel auctions which have already received bids.  Once an auction has received a bid it is my policy to allow it to run its course. 

You also need to be sure you know the market value of your products - if you are selling Chinese tat then no problem.  Selling one-offs in a niche or collectible market it is difficult to know the value at any one one time as it depends on how many people are looking for it.  I have been offered £50 for a book on auction but letting it run it returned over £400 to a buyer in New Zealand.  This happens frequently enough for it to be beneficial to allow auctions to run their course.

A couple of questions, not trick questions just trying to ascertain your experience in what is turning into an interesting thread.  Do you run auctions?  Do you sell internationally?

Finally, there is a glimmer of hope from the post # 41 by @amphibolous   I will check out the US blogs and forums later to gauge what the consensus is.

[a45heaven]

Just Curious but as a seller how would you know if a buyer who won an auction at 5am  would win another auction a few hours later or a few days later or even a few weeks later ?

I wouldnt - but i have a much higher level of repeat buyers, and as such i have always allowed them time to consolidate orders (up to several weeks if need be) - ebay have ended that practice with the four days or else insanity (i have maybe one NPB a year, so which function works best?)

Ive reduced the number of auctions i have each week and have them in a 12 minute block. I dont understand why you would want a bidder to message me, communicating is somewhat a no-no on ebay is it not?

I used to encourage bidders to compliment auction wins with BIN - but ebay made that difficult, so BIN are now on another platform, ( incidently at half the fee, less restricting rules, and without the glitches which compound this platform)

So rather than secure a sale by receiving payment you would rather wait until all the auctions end to see if a buyer won more than one item to give them a discount ?

Until the '4 day and cancel' was brought in by ebay, i allowed waiting and offering free or reduced postage, or even a freebie - its quite rare i have issues with buyers, i treat them with respect, and it appears to be reciprocated - These days its far more difficult to reward buyers ( personal customers relationships i value).

Surely the best way would be to put all the items that  the buyer  wanted to purchase in one job lot BIN with a discounted  price for combined postage

Yes , thats what i do with my BIN on other platforms. ebay is for auctions, and that kind of practice is not for me.

 end the auctions and let him buy the lot and pay immediately !

how much creditability do you think id have if i ended auctions early and let the items go to one buyer, and leave the bidders disappointed if they were watching the item?

Remember i have a high percentage of regular buyers whom i respect.

I find that suggestion obscene. Is that a practice you use?

[vinylscot]

@dch2112011  I think your comment no 42, illustrated one of your own points. You are only thinking about your own position; I'll give you a little credit for attempting to play devil's advocate in reverse, but this comment just shows your unfamiliarity with the situation many others face.

Of course you don't know that any particular auction winner will win another, but it's only sensible that you can deal with any individual scenario in a suitable manner. Most sellers who use auctions are only too happy to "wait and see", and have no idea whether any individual buyer may intend to bid on other listings.

This isn't about discounts; it's about practical things like combined postage, over-complicated invoicing/refunding, and non paying bidders.

Sellers runing auctions aren't going to bundle up items into a BIN. The whole point of an auction is to realise as good a price as possible. Your idea could lose a seller a large sum of money, as many bids do still come in during the last few seconds, albeit not as often as in times gone by.

It really makes no difference to you if you don't run auction listings, so why not leave the discussion to those who do, and who have more relevant opinions.

[marco@ebay]

Hi all,

First of all, thanks very much for your questions and feedback on this. I can see that users are not particularly liking this change, so I will make sure to pass on everyone's feedback. We really value your feedback under these circumstances, so any input that you might have, please feel free to add it here, and I will be more than happy to pass that on as well.

I've just checked this, and as of now, no options to opt out will be available. Please keep in mind that this hasn't gone live, and we will start with a few accounts and continue to test this, since we are still testing, this could be subject to change, so eventually you might have the option to opt out or check/uncheck a box to require this payment from your buyers when placing a bid, or something similar like that.

Regarding the one hour period, this means that buyers will have an hour to make any changes if they want to (Shipping address, or payment method, for example). If they don't take any actions, the charge will go through and that will complete the sale/transaction, and then sellers will just have to ship the item to the address given as usual (The shipping information given to the seller will be the buyer's default shipping details that they have on file). If the seller wished to change something within an hour, but they didn't, that would be their responsibility as buyers. If the buyer is not in the same time zone, that will also be their responsibility, and they will be able to make the decision of whether they want to bid for the item in question or not.

Regarding combining shipping, yes, you still can combine shipping. However, it is true that your buyer might be charged individually for each item. If this happens, for the moment we recommend refunding any excess charged in postage. I understand this is certainly not ideal for you as a buyer or seller, but we are looking to update this to prevent it from happening in the future.

In terms of sharing the data/feedback or agency used to make these changes, I'm afraid that everything that could have been shared externally/publicly has already been shared, so no further actions would be taken here. For further info, you can visit the help pages of the new changes provided in the announcements from yesterday.

Thank you,
Marco

[a45heaven]

what notice will be given of this dictate?

When will it be live on the USA site?

I've just checked this, and as of now, no options to opt out will be available.

Wow ! choice is an obsolete emotion here it seems.

Regarding combining shipping, yes, you still can combine shipping. However, it is true that your buyer might be charged individually for each item. If this happens, for the moment we recommend refunding any excess charged in postage. I understand this is certainly not ideal for you as a buyer or seller, but we are looking to update this to prevent it from happening in the future.

Why is there such a panic to achieve this lax process? 

Most sense would be to prove something prior to inflicting it onto an unwilling subject.

What specific communication will be provided to Buyers? or will it be like the 4 days and strike, and left to the sellers to communicate and bear the brunt of buyers wraths

[vinylscot]

marco@ebay  Marco, thanks for answering. I know it's your job to put foward eBay's point of view, but you don't seem very enthusiastic about this yourself.

You have acknowledged some of the concerns we have raised, and you do seem to agree with us on these points. Indeed, you don't seem able to defend this policy change anywhere in your response.

This is an opportunity for eBay to show they are listening. When their own representative can't find anything positive to say about something, I would take that as a sign.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

would it not just have been simpler for e bay to actually do something about serial non payers?  I am only a small private seller but if someone does not pay within the stated time i just cancel the sale and block the bidder.  Rather that than have to refund for some made up return reason.  If everyone did that and e bay actually penalised those non payers after a certain amount of times  it would be a damn sight easier for all concerned.    I can forsee more returns happening and that makes everyones lives more difficult.

[a45heaven]

Very well put indeed.

Maybe ebay prefer to have the funds for a period of time prior to the hassle of a refund, which they dont get involved in usually.

Who knows maybe some buyers dont bother to refund, just give negative feedback on the seller. 

This site has changed a LOT over the years, this change is not going to be a famously good well thought out one i fear.

[tommystrezures]

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marco@ebay wrote:

Hi all,

"First of all, thanks very much for your questions and feedback on this. I can see that users are not particularly liking this change, so I will make sure to pass on everyone's feedback."

---

Two words spring to mind.... "Lead" and "Balloon"

Especially if its like last years farce with the BIN automatic payment fiasco where ebay actually forgot to tell anyone about it until it was too late, and STILL have not resolved the issues of users being able to combine postage, select click and collect as an option, use things such as paypal credit, use cashback sites etc.

On top of this we have the Simple Delivery which has gone quite 'simply' quiet.... 

We trust our buyers and rarely have a problem, the odd non payer we wait til five days and give them a strike and block them, I can't see that there is more we can do as sellers, all I see this ill conceived idea is that it will potentially drive buyers away.

[*help_no_brakes*]

---

@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

would it not just have been simpler for e bay to actually do something about serial non payers?  I am only a small private seller but if someone does not pay within the stated time i just cancel the sale and block the bidder.  Rather that than have to refund for some made up return reason.  If everyone did that and e bay actually penalised those non payers after a certain amount of times  it would be a damn sight easier for all concerned.    I can forsee more returns happening and that makes everyones lives more difficult.

---

Do you not have your Buyer Rquirements set to block "serial non payers"?

[*help_no_brakes*]

---

marco@ebay wrote:

Hi all,

First of all, thanks very much for your questions and feedback on this. I can see that users are not particularly liking this change, so I will make sure to pass on everyone's feedback. We really value your feedback under these circumstances, so any input that you might have, please feel free to add it here, and I will be more than happy to pass that on as well.

I've just checked this, and as of now, no options to opt out will be available. Please keep in mind that this hasn't gone live, and we will start with a few accounts and continue to test this, since we are still testing, this could be subject to change, so eventually you might have the option to opt out or check/uncheck a box to require this payment from your buyers when placing a bid, or something similar like that.

Regarding the one hour period, this means that buyers will have an hour to make any changes if they want to (Shipping address, or payment method, for example). If they don't take any actions, the charge will go through and that will complete the sale/transaction, and then sellers will just have to ship the item to the address given as usual (The shipping information given to the seller will be the buyer's default shipping details that they have on file). If the seller wished to change something within an hour, but they didn't, that would be their responsibility as buyers. If the buyer is not in the same time zone, that will also be their responsibility, and they will be able to make the decision of whether they want to bid for the item in question or not.

Regarding combining shipping, yes, you still can combine shipping. However, it is true that your buyer might be charged individually for each item. If this happens, for the moment we recommend refunding any excess charged in postage. I understand this is certainly not ideal for you as a buyer or seller, but we are looking to update this to prevent it from happening in the future.

In terms of sharing the data/feedback or agency used to make these changes, I'm afraid that everything that could have been shared externally/publicly has already been shared, so no further actions would be taken here. For further info, you can visit the help pages of the new changes provided in the announcements from yesterday.

Thank you,
Marco

---

How will this effect those who use a snipe service to place their one & only bid 2 seconds from the end of an auction?

[Anonymous]

How will this affect a buyer who wishes to send an item, which they are fortunate to win, to an alternate address?

I have, on many an occasion, amended the delivery address at checkout because I purchased an item for someone else. Payment has been, however, made many hours after the end of the auction; most certainly not within only one hour.

This, then, will put an end to that. One less precious buyer?

With my buyer’s hat on, this is lunacy.

[dch2112011]

Why would you find ending an auction with no bids obscene ? 

[dch2112011]

Yes amphibolous sniffed out a really good piece of info 

With regards to your questions  - auctions we no longer run as a day to day part of selling, we used to run auctions  for similar items finishing every few minutes  and they sold in number, end of lines  or bundles of end of lines -

I must add that we started selling one off items solely at auction and it worked  but we saw the potential  of selling repeat stock items. 

Non payers or late payers and the frequency of requests after auctions for combined postage became too time consuming and trying to explain to customers that yes we will combine postage but because of the weights /sizes often the postage would be higher for two items in one box than 2 items posted seperately,  brought out the best in buyers.

Then you had customers who messaged saying they were bidding on a number of auctions and would we would wait to combine the postage which we agreed and then they only won one item and with hundreds of auctions going through it became difficult to administer 

We just took the decision to sell with free postage  and eventually not to auction at all.

Internationally we sell using GSP  which again is for ease and speed - I know we get fewer sales but without any problems - we used to sell direct  but again with a reasonable volume it added considerable time.

I totally get the chance of  getting more by letting an auction run especially for one off niche products but would you really wait up to 3 weeks for other auctions to finish in the hope that the same buyer won them so you could discount the postage ?

Maybe with fewer buyers in a niche market  it becomes more likely that the same buyers win similar auctions -  that is a fragile way of selling but if it works for some great.

[dch2112011]

I can see you sell by auction on ebay and you use BIN listings but your rebuke is ill thought out - 

Why as an experianced seller would you find making a refund over complicated ? What are you doing to complicate such a simple and quick function ? 

As a knowledgeable ebayer - Why are you finding putting invoices in with the product over complicated - maybe you are using an overcomplicated method of producing an invoice ?

Non paying bidders - Why do you think as such an experianced auctioneer that the new system will not deter non payers ? 

As an experianced auction user - What makes you think most ebayers are happy to wait to see if one buyer wins future auctions before being paid - 3 weeks has been mentioned are you suggesting this is normal ?

As an experianced ebayer are you stating that combined postage is not a method of making a deduction from the usual price - that is a discount !

As an experianced ebay user of auctions Why would you believe that if a buyer contacted a seller and wanted to buy 10 items from auctions with no bids that they would not want to negotiate a BIN price and end the auctions - that seems to be a little naive - it may suit you but I think you will find many sellers would jump at the chance 

As for your last comment  a word springs to mind but hey you might not understand it !