24-01-2025 1:10 PM
Hi all, hope someone can help me, I sold a neff gas hob burner all brand new in the box straight from the factory.
Now the buyer of one of the ones I sold has come back and said that after he has paid a gas engineer to fit the hob that they have noticed a mark on the black hob grate and is now asking me to buy a new one for them, I would just like to know where I stand with Ebay as if there was a mark they should have noticed prior to installing and also I take photos before shipping and can clearly see no marks. The item can not be returned as it has been opened and installed. Will Ebay understand that they should have checked prior to installing and also take my photos into account.
P.s photo below of my packaged item prior to sending
24-01-2025 1:18 PM - edited 24-01-2025 1:19 PM
@rit5761 wrote:I would just like to know where I stand with Ebay as if there was a mark they should have noticed prior to installing and also I take photos before shipping and can clearly see no marks. The item can not be returned as it has been opened and installed.
If your buyer opens an "item not as described" (INAD) case you will have no choice but to issue a returns label at your own expense and deal with the issue upon return of the item. If the buyer does open an INAD case and you don't issue a return label your buyer could escalate on the third day at which point they would be all but guaranteed to receive a full refund and would be told they don't need to return anything.
Has the buyer opened a return case or have they just sent messages?
@rit5761 wrote:Will Ebay understand that they should have checked prior to installing and also take my photos into account.
No and no.
24-01-2025 1:25 PM
If i was buying something like a gas hob or cooker i would expect to be able to return it or the company to sort it out if it was not perfect, but you are selling these items on a private account with no returns accepted.
24-01-2025 1:43 PM
@rit5761 wrote:
Hi all, hope someone can help me, I sold a neff gas hob burner all brand new in the box straight from the factory.
Now the buyer of one of the ones I sold has come back and said that after he has paid a gas engineer to fit the hob that they have noticed a mark on the black hob grate and is now asking me to buy a new one for them, I would just like to know where I stand with Ebay as if there was a mark they should have noticed prior to installing and also I take photos before shipping and can clearly see no marks. The item can not be returned as it has been opened and installed. Will Ebay understand that they should have checked prior to installing and also take my photos into account.
P.s photo below of my packaged item prior to sending
Has your buyer opened an eBay not as described return yet?
If they have, I would be contacting eBay to let them know that the buyer shouldn't be covered by eBay's Money Back Guarantee because they had the item fitted and installed, so it's probable that the installer caused the damage and the item cannot be sent back in the same state it was sent in.
Pop back and let us know what they say, it's important that you sort this before the buyer can escalate the return to ask eBay to step in (after 3 business days), because if they do then it's likely that they'll end up with the item and a full refund. You may need to accept this return and then argue the toss, which will be more difficult but at least you won't lose your item.
24-01-2025 1:49 PM
adding to the advice already given -
business sellers have to accept returns for any reason.
24-01-2025 3:05 PM
Apart from the fact that it appears you should be running a business account, the photo you have added proves nothing. It is not, as you say, a photo of your packaged item prior to sending - it is just one of the photos from your listing. eBay have no way of knowing that that was the actual item you sent.
This is further confirmed as, even if we believe the photo to be genuine, you had two of these items on your listing, so we have no way of knowing if this is the one you sent, or if it was the other one.
As other posters have suggested, the best thing you can do is accept the return, and arrange to have the item returned to you. Do not refund until you have the item has been received, and, if it arrives back in significantly different condition, you can try appealing the refund with eBay, although this is unlikely to succeed.
In the meantime, look into converting your account into a business account if you plan on continuing to sell on eBay.
24-01-2025 3:39 PM
As you are brand new to ebay with no feedback as of yet and would be subject to " funds held" it would probably be in your best interests to honour your buyers request. Additionally, if you are intending to run business activities, or start a new business or already have a business ( physical or elsewhere online selling the same/similar items) perhaps a chat with a customer service agent and understanding the difference between private and business accounts , plus the term and conditions of eBay, etc so that you can determine the correct way to proceed with your sales account.
Good luck in your endeavours.
24-01-2025 10:59 PM
No ebay issue has been raised from the buyer they just messaged me, which i initially offered to send £20 which was half the price of a new grate, as thye had already opened the box removed all the plastic vacuum packaging and polystyrene, removed the grates, hob rings with more polystyrene supports then went ahead and installed the appliance then put it all back together before noticing the marks.
Then to makes things that bit more suspect they then send me a message saying if I send them £30 they will leave good feedback!!!
As for photos each box has there own serial and barcode numbers which can clearly be seen
24-01-2025 11:03 PM
I am not new to Ebay, this is a new account for selling only, which depending on how the next 2 to 3 months go I will then switch to business, but my stock levels are not there yet to be able to compete on a large scale with others
25-01-2025 8:35 AM
That makes no difference at all. If you purchase one item with intent to sell it on, you should be operating on a business account, both under eBay's rules, and the law of the land. This is particularly true with items such as you are selling, where safety issues are paramount.
Private accounts are for individuals selling their own personal possessions. You do not fit that definition.
25-01-2025 9:32 AM
@rit5761 wrote:
No ebay issue has been raised from the buyer they just messaged me, which i initially offered to send £20 which was half the price of a new grate, as thye had already opened the box removed all the plastic vacuum packaging and polystyrene, removed the grates, hob rings with more polystyrene supports then went ahead and installed the appliance then put it all back together before noticing the marks.
Then to makes things that bit more suspect they then send me a message saying if I send them £30 they will leave good feedback!!!
As for photos each box has there own serial and barcode numbers which can clearly be seen
You're on a sticky wicket here.
I can't believe that neither the buyer or installer noticed marks on the item to the item before installing it, but as others have pointed out you have traded incorrectly on a private account instead of a business one, which throws a different light on things.
On that basis, I'd say that your options here are to make the partial refund or accept the return and refund once you get your item back.
25-01-2025 9:39 AM
I will have to look into the business side of things going forth, I am not a stockist these were acquired through a business liquidation sale (impulse buy) and I just need my space in my garage back.
I have offer a partial refund of half the price of a new grate and he is demanding more for positive feedback, I have also offered for him to send it back and I can then deal with it but again he just doesn't want to send it back either, and I dont mean the while hob but the marked grate.
Is there anything else I could possible do? I have contacted ebay myself for help as I didn't like the feedback blackmail
Regards
Ritchie
25-01-2025 9:41 AM
No real help, sorry (others posting here know more, are wiser and are more experienced), but may I offer a few thoughts possibly worth pondering:
Did you film the exterior and in the same filming sequence film yourself packaging up the item and taking it to the courier? Of course not, who does that?! Can you prove the mark wasn't made during shipping? eBay probably wouldn't be interested anyway. All of this paragraph is to show how non-watertight things are that people rely on e.g. pre-sale photos aren't proof (item can be damaged anywhere between photographing and drop-off), nor a courier's/Royal Mail's proof of posting (only proves an item of a certain weight was posted). Obviously there's a lot of trust involved in a transaction.
By stating "no returns" a private seller can't legally cancel a buyer's rights under consumer law nor eBay's MBG/policies (which tend to favour the buyer), even if a buyer allows a seller to do so in practice.
Did the buyer film themselves unpackaging the hob and film the exterior? (I do that when I buy high-value items). Doesn't sound like they did, yet it's reasonable to expect a buyer to check goods on arrival, before getting the hob installed (though not surprising, human nature being what it is).
To avoid having to accept a return and/or refund, maybe consider offering a partial refund? but without prejudice (you don't have to say "without prejudice" which makes it sound legal or officious, as long as you make it clear that you believe you sent the item without a mark and would be making the offer on the basis the mark may've appeared during transit or after and you thus can't be held responsible for the mark, and that if the buyer accepts your partial refund then that ends the matter), and always communicate using eBay's messaging, and write as if you expect eBay to read the messages.
25-01-2025 9:45 AM
Also, if the hob has to be returned, who pays to uninstall it?
25-01-2025 9:52 AM
If or when HMRC look at your tax affairs they're concerned only with how much profit you've made and whether it's taxable (tax threshold etc) - I'm sure you know this.
"my stock levels are not there yet to be able to compete on a large scale with others" isn't an excuse HMRC would take notice of, if they take notice of excuses at all.
25-01-2025 9:53 AM
@rit5761 wrote:
I will have to look into the business side of things going forth, I am not a stockist these were acquired through a business liquidation sale (impulse buy) and I just need my space in my garage back.
I have offer a partial refund of half the price of a new grate and he is demanding more for positive feedback, I have also offered for him to send it back and I can then deal with it but again he just doesn't want to send it back either, and I dont mean the while hob but the marked grate.
Is there anything else I could possible do? I have contacted ebay myself for help as I didn't like the feedback blackmail
Regards
Ritchie
A private seller is one who is just selling off their own personal items such as clothes from their wardrobe, bits from their loft/garage etc. So, a private seller would only have one of those items to sell.
A Business seller is someone who buys or makes items to sell on. They need to be registered as a business to meet the requirements of UK law.
The only other option is to call his bluff. If he's paid for the installation he's hardly likely to want to remove it and send it back. You can state via eBay messages that the item wasn't marked when sent, and that if it was then a return should have been opened at that point, the installer should not have gone ahead and installed it (when they could have done the damage). On that basis you're not willing to make any kind of partial refund. Then see if he does open a return. Problem with calling somebody's bluff is you have to be prepared to lose, and the item may come back even more damaged.
Personally, in your shoes, I would cut my losses and send him the £30 he's asking for, only because if he does open a return you'll need to pay for the cost of the return shipping, you'll then need to refund the full original payment so will have lost out on the outward shipping cost too, and the item you get back may be damaged and have little or no sale value.
25-01-2025 9:57 AM
If the buyer's *clearly* trying feedback-blackmail, let's hope it's via eBay's messaging system and you can refer eBay to it if necessary. Feedback-blackmail is against the rules/policies of both eBay and of decent human behaviour.
25-01-2025 9:57 AM - edited 25-01-2025 10:06 AM
Feedback extortion won't work with eBay on this, I was told that the buyer has to threaten to leave a negative feedback for a refund or extra items that were not part of the sale. They have worded it to sound like they will leave a negative without actually saying they will.
In your case they need to say they want £30 or they will leave a negative then you have a case and I think only then they would remove the feedback if left, it won't change the fact they wish to return. eBay hasn't viewed the item before you shipped so will always give the buyer the benefit of doubt.
I have had feedback removed when a buyer threatened us with similar and did eventually leave feedback.
You have 2 options partial refund or send them a message and request a return and then reply no further, leave it up to them to open a case, more often than not they won't bother or they open a return and never send.
It's a bad combination, new account with no feedback and brand new items you would only expect a business to sell.
eBay must have data on partial refunds and who are the most likely to get such a request, I sold something on private account last week and just yesterday there was an issue and they wanted a spurious partial refund which I declined I suggested they open a return, on my business account I haven't had a partial refund request for many years, do buyers target private sellers more than a business when it comes to this thinking they have more of chance of getting it or is it based solely on the item?
I have a genuine interest in this to try and work out buyer psychology.
25-01-2025 10:20 AM
Could be the installer made the mark, buyer noticed, installer said (perhaps even believing it) that it was there before he arrived.
The ancient Egyptian mythology, the court of judgement in the afterlife was called "the Hall of Two Truths".
25-01-2025 3:49 PM
I have now changed my account to business account going forth and thank you to all who advised this which lead me to read and understand it better.
As for the item if the buyer had paid the full price of £289.99 from curry's or AO and then installed it to notice a mark after install then I know for a fact that his consumer rights would not matter and the shop would not entertain or even offer a partial refund, this is the part that is so frustrating that if it was damaged he would have noticed as soon as he opened the sealed box, but regardless i have offer for him to return the grate or I have given him the option of the £30 feedback blackmail see photo attached