Royal Mail - Tracking available on International Standard Parcel

[wellingnorth]

Just thought worth posting here a recent surprising experience with a Royal Mail standard International parcel. The parcel was sent to South Africa and the buyer told me it didn't arrive so I eventually refunded and claimed from Royal Mail.

Royal Mail have just been in touch to deny the claim and provided a tracking number which they told me showed delivery to the address. I was surprised that any tracking number existed and when I looked it was not visible in the usual places in Click and Drop (where I bought the postage) or passed across to ebay like it usually does if I mark a tracked order as dispatched. Finally if I put the number into Royal Mail's tracking page I get nothing after the original collection but 4tracking.net gives me the full tracking details to the address in South Africa.

I did eventually work out that the number is actually on the original shipping label  below the barcode. So the lesson is, if you ever get a claim of non-receipt on an international standard parcel bought online, download the postage label again and see if there's anything that looks like a tracking number on there. If there is, try it on 4tracking.net and see what comes up.

[technthread]

When I post letters to the USA using RM International Standard, as soon as I upload the tracking to the eBay order, eBay automatically flip the courier from RM to USPS.

Those show no update until ‘origin post is preparing shipment’ and then they track fully until USPS deliver which is great. 

It seems to vary a lot depending on the country you post to. For eg I send the same way to Australia and get zero tracking updates on those ones. 

[wellingnorth]

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@technthread wrote:

When I post letters to the USA using RM International Standard, as soon as I upload the tracking to the eBay order, eBay automatically flip the courier from RM to USPS.

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That's interesting, is that again the number on the barcode on the label?

I'm sure you're right that this may vary by country. I just checked another International Standard order I had recently to the Czech Republic. This one if I take the barcode UB number and enter it on the Royal Mail tracking number it specifically says 'Tracking information is not available for this service', but if I put it into 4tracking.net it shows all the tracking events after arrival in the Czech Republic.

I'm following this up with Royal Mail as clearly if tracking is available and they can use it to deny claims of loss they should be telling you the number and also letting you see the tracking on their website!

[technthread]

Yeah I always add the UB number on the right into the eBay order. It is odd really as like I mentioned eBay change RM to USPS instantly and you can then click the link to check the tracking offsite on USPS’ site. It shows no tracking updates on there and actually says it isn’t trackable . RM also shows nothing on their tracking so credit to eBay they manage to show all the tracking scans somehow.

I actually spoke to RM recently about an issue on one of these letters. They were adamant my International Standard letters to the USA aren’t tracked and were shocked that I could tell them that is incorrect as I can see updates on eBay. I’d imagine if you raise your concern with them you will be frustrated as their customer service will be on a different wavelength.

[wellingnorth]

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@technthread wrote:

Yeah I always add the UB number on the right into the eBay order. It is odd really as like I mentioned eBay change RM to USPS instantly and you can then click the link to check the tracking offsite on USPS’ site. It shows no tracking updates on there and actually says it isn’t trackable . RM also shows nothing on their tracking so credit to eBay they manage to show all the tracking scans somehow.

I actually spoke to RM recently about an issue on one of these letters. They were adamant my International Standard letters to the USA aren’t tracked and were shocked that I could tell them that is incorrect as I can see updates on eBay. I’d imagine if you raise your concern with them you will be frustrated as their customer service will be on a different wavelength.

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Interesting I guess the ebay tracking must be working in the same way as these global tracking sites like 4tracking.net are working, whatever that is.

Regarding Royal Mail it's actually their adviser who has raised this with me in denying the claim. Previously when I've replied to their messages I've had luck getting back to the same person so I'll see where I end up with it.

[wellingnorth]

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@technthread wrote:

It seems to vary a lot depending on the country you post to. For eg I send the same way to Australia and get zero tracking updates on those ones. 

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Just checked another standard one I had to Greece which I know was delivered and that one I get nothing from the UB number, so I suppose it is maybe a question of checking for a result first rather than just adding the number to all international orders.

[technthread]

I was wondering what happens if we add the shorter reference to the left of the label when posting to Australia / Greece etc. Maybe it is the same result but I might test that out next time if it’s going to a country where I know the UB number is useless. 

[wellingnorth]

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@technthread wrote:

I was wondering what happens if we add the shorter reference to the left of the label when posting to Australia / Greece etc. Maybe it is the same result but I might test that out next time if it’s going to a country where I know the UB number is useless. 

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I just had a look through a few more of my orders and as far as I can see it seems like the 11-xx number by the qr code never gives a result on 4tracking.net and only shows up on Royal Mail's tracking page if you have had the item collected. So Royal Mail will either say 'We've got it Item was collected as per request', or otherwise  'Tracking information is not available for this service'. The 11-xx number also appears as the item reference in any collection confirmation email.

It's not conclusive but I tried the UB number from recent labels to Germany, Italy and France and nothing showed up for them on 4tracking, I suppose it could vary between large letters and parcels as well.

[technthread]

Thanks that’s useful to know. 

I entered my most recent USA bound UB tracking number into the 4tracking site and nothing showed up. eBay tracked it all the way up to delivery and it was only a <100g letter. USPS and RM’s sites showed no update.

I think my postage policy on this in future is going to be that I will offer RM International Standard on anything letter size or large letter but only up to 250g. I can offer big postage savings vs eBay GSP on those but I’m only doing it for items under £20. Once I get into higher value sales and bigger size parcels it doesn’t seem worth using untracked services and a lot safer to just let eBay GSP deal with it for me. 

[maldon-jewellery]

Very interesting.

Whenever I get an international enquiry, I don't just rely on Rm or the actual country's tracking system, I also use https://parcelsapp.com/

This has proven to show tracking events in much more detail and where Poste Italiane now displays a MUCH more minimised tracking details, https://parcelsapp.com/ has shown things like collection points and other tracking events.  I have then been able to advise customers that their packet is at a different location and where that location is.

Never ever rely on just one tracking system.

Half the time RM tracking is down and when you are trying to track 10 or 20 packets to see what has or has not arrived, you are confronted by a captcha.  No other country's tracking has ever presented me with such obstacles!

[wellingnorth]

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@technthread wrote:

I entered my most recent USA bound UB tracking number into the 4tracking site and nothing showed up. eBay tracked it all the way up to delivery and it was only a <100g letter. USPS and RM’s sites showed no update.

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So are you saying with that one that neither 4tracking nor Royal Mail are showing anything but ebay is picking something up where you've entered it against the order?

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I think my postage policy on this in future is going to be that I will offer RM International Standard on anything letter size or large letter but only up to 250g. I can offer big postage savings vs eBay GSP on those but I’m only doing it for items under £20. Once I get into higher value sales and bigger size parcels it doesn’t seem worth using untracked services and a lot safer to just let eBay GSP deal with it for me. 

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At the moment I use standard for everything up to about £25 and tracked over that. Generally it works out okay, once or twice a year I might have something go missing and can usually claim. I think with the tracking thing I'm just going to carry on as I have been, but now if I do ever get someone ask for a tracking number or claim non receipt I'll dig out the label and have a look.

[technthread]

So are you saying with that one that neither 4tracking nor Royal Mail are showing anything but ebay is picking something up where you've entered it against the order?

Yeah exactly. I also checked the parcelapp link that Maldon Jewellery provided and entered the UB number with RM and USPS as the courier and got no updates there either. I’d love to know where eBay pull the tracking from on those USA ones and why they can’t replicate it for other countries. 

[technthread]

* I tried a few different inputs on parcelsapp and the site you have mentioned but I won’t flood the post with loads more screenshots. 

[maldon-jewellery]

Wow, that is helpful.  Certainly makes it more confusing when it comes to an INR!

[wellingnorth]

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@maldon-jewellery wrote:

Never ever rely on just one tracking system.

Half the time RM tracking is down and when you are trying to track 10 or 20 packets to see what has or has not arrived, you are confronted by a captcha.  No other country's tracking has ever presented me with such obstacles!

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It certainly seems sub-optimal that Royal Mail can deny a claim and tell you an item has been delivered based on the UB number but their own tracking system does not show any of the tracking!

I'll post back here if and when I hear back from them, for now I just replied to their message to me but will raise it separately as a complaint if I don't get a response.

[ett1954]

The tracking is dependent on the country and the final postal carrier.  I have recently successfully won an INR claim from a Spanish buyer.  A large letter (500-750 grams), value £18 plus postage.  This INR was submitted two months after posting.

Royal Mail tracking obviously shows nothing however entering the barcode number on the Correos website (the Spanish national carrier) it shows full tracking from the moment they received it and even mentioned it was put through the letterbox and with the precise time.  An increasing number of countries are now using Royal Mail's barcode number for final tracking, especially where they have inclusive tracking services.

It is always useful to track the national carrier for tracking in such cases.

[technthread]

It’s funny you should mention Spain as I had one but it fell off my sales history as it went over 90 days. I recall the UB number tracked on eBay but I may be mis-remembering so I didn’t say anything about that one. Did you find that one tracked on eBay like my USA one did?

[technthread]

* I mean did it track as Royal Mail or did you have to enter the carrier into the eBay order as Correos?

[ett1954]

I hadn't entered any number on eBay as it was not a tracked service but a standard international service with just a barcode number.  Once the INR came in I entered the Royal Mail barcode number to the sale.

I countered the INR by sending the customer a reply which included screen shots of the Correos tracking page and a download of the postage label (I automatically save a download of postage labels) which shows his address and the barcode number , plus a jpeg of the proof of posting.  I spoke to eBay CS prior to refusing the INR so they could see the evidence I had submitted to the buyer.  CS were very helpful.

He left a neg after eBay refused his claim.  Buyers now have up to 90 days to leave feedback.  I completed a feedback removal request which included the screenshots and jpeg which was initially rejected.  I managed to get eBay CS in Berlin where an extremely helpful young lady checked on the Correos website at my prompting whereupon she immediately had the neg removed.

Apparently the feedback removal request is done automatically and it was only looking at the Royal Mail site which couldn't of course confirm delivery.

A couple of points to note on this incident.  The buyer had past form with negs on international sellers to him for INRs; this included buyers from the UK (3), Germany, Switzerland, Canada, and others I cannot recall.  None for Spanish sellers who obviously had automatic tracking.

Second point; I dealt with 3 CS agents during this process - 2 from Ireland and the young lady in Germany.  All  provided clear advice throughout in a detailed and coherent way which was a great help in progressing through the processes.  They were all a credit to eBay and a reminder of what good customer service provides to a company's image.  Advice when dealing with CS be calm, clear and respectful.

[technthread]

Thanks for breaking that down.

You had a good result. I would have expected them to only consider the tracking on the eBay order I think that’s why I am a bit fixated on how to upload tracking dependant on country. It is good to know eBay will be open to reviewing cases like this if we can find the domestic tracking.