Rolling auctions? Why has eBay never enabled rolling/live auctions?

[anyoldbitz]

Morning all,

I'm sure this topic has been addressed before, but I can't find any info on it.

Why hasn't eBay ever introduced rolling auctions. By this I mean, an auction that is automatically extended by one minute after each bid placed in the final minute of the expected end time.

Example the expected end of the auction is 5:00pm but someone bids with only seconds remaining, the auction is then extended until 5:01pm. If someone bids again, its extended by another minute. Well, you get the idea. just like a normal live auction.

This would allow for better returns for sellers and remove the sniper issues. Obviously, the seller would have the option to use the feature, or just standard auction.

[kl_books]

Agreed. I have thought this recently myself.

[plpmr]

eBay is not like a 'normal auction' and as it's world wide bidders are not going to sit at their computers in the early hours of the morning - so it would not mean better returns for sellers.

Others have tried it and found it does not work.

It would encourage and aid shill bidding.

"remove the sniper issues" Exactly what issues?

Etc.

[*vyolla*]

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@anyoldbitz wrote:

Why hasn't eBay ever introduced rolling auctions. By this I mean, an auction that is automatically extended by one minute after each bid placed in the final minute of the expected end time.

Example the expected end of the auction is 5:00pm but someone bids with only seconds remaining, the auction is then extended until 5:01pm. If someone bids again, its extended by another minute. Well, you get the idea. just like a normal live auction.

This would allow for better returns for sellers and remove the sniper issues. Obviously, the seller would have the option to use the feature, or just standard auction.

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Sounds like a nightmare for both buyers and sellers, I wouldn't bother bidding or selling in auction style format if this were the case. 

As has been pointed out, it will open the gates for shill bidding and non-payers who get caught up in the moment.

What are the 'sniper issues', out of curiosity? A snipe is a last minute bid, placed either manually or via a snipe site, and it's the best way for a buyer to bid. I always place my highest bid as close to auction end as possible. 

[superchallenge]

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@plpmr wrote:

eBay is not like a 'normal auction' and as it's world wide bidders are not going to sit at their computers in the early hours of the morning - so it would not mean better returns for sellers.

Others have tried it and found it does not work.

It would encourage and aid shill bidding.

"remove the sniper issues" Exactly what issues?

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eBay may not be like a 'normal auction' but this system of automatically extending an auction works very, very well on sites such as Yahoo! Auctions Japan, which employs this method as standard. It absolutely increases (on average) returns for sellers. If every single bid was from a different time zone then sure, I can see your point about people not waiting all night to bid, but worldwide or not, that very often isn't the case. Plus, if they REALLY want an item, then people in different timezones will likely be sat there in the middle of the night waiting for the auction to end anyway. Another 30 minutes or so isn't going to put them off.

For reference, YAJ resets the clock to 5 minutes if a new highest bidder is crowned with less than 5 minutes to go, and the absolute most extensions I've had to wait through when buying there is about 7 or 8. It doesn't increase if somebody puts in a new bid that doesn't put them in the lead.

I really can't see how it would encourage and aid shill bidding any more than the current system does. A shiller still wouldn't know what the highest bidder's maximum price is, or if they're going to come in again with a higher bid if they're outbid.

[indigo-island]

But if you bid your max amount - then it makes no difference surely?  With current system you know when something ends, and you know if you bid the most you'll pay you either win or you don't.

[papso22]

Precisely.  Nice, simple and manageable!

[superchallenge]

Indeed, but a lot of people don't bid their max amount. They do the absolute opposite.

They bid the minimum amount it takes to put them in the lead. Every auction I run, I end up suddenly getting six or seven notifications in a row where one bidder has clearly been putting in bids in increments of £2 until they eventually take the lead. Then they stop until they're outbid.

Looking at an auction I ran last week. Original leader was in charge at £36. Challenger's first bid was £37 and they bid in £2 and £5 increments until they took the lead at £75. A new bidder came in to take the lead, then the original leader - whose first bid was just £36, bear in mind - started bidding in increments all the way up to £142, where they took the lead again. They lost the auction by £2 to a bid that came in 9 seconds before the auction closed.

Would that original leader who has been tracking the auction for 6 days and thrown in dozens of incremental bids have thrown in another couple of bids if the auction had been extended?

I reckon there's a good chance they would have.

[*devils.advocate*]

Some sellers will time their auctions to suit them - not buyers.

I’ve often wondered, when this topic has been raised by those many times over the years, if the majority of those actually really want to buy the item for less than their maximum potential spend and grab a “bargain”.

At least on eBay, everyone knows when an auction is to end - a level playing field for all - and if beaten by a last second bid, just means someone else was prepared to spend more than other bidders.

Highest bid always wins no matter if placed in the first seconds or last seconds.

[kl_books]

I would personally welcome it being trialled as an option along side the current system. It wouldn't be for everyone but I think it would work out better for many.

[plpmr]

The majotity of listyings are not for high ticket item so a bidder is not going to sit at their computer in the early hours for an unknown amout of time.

“Another 30 minutes or so isn't going to put them off.”

It could be hours or even days.

“I really can't see how it would encourage and aid shill bidding any more than the current system does”

As long as a shiller has the unlimited time [as per a rolling auction gives them] to discover the top bid it will help them.

[plpmr]

They could not have been bidding in £5 increments as you state.

[vinylscot]

Some of the B&M auction houses use a form of this on their timed auctions. From speaking with sellers who have used them, many are not happy with their results from such listings.

There is less incentive for a bidder to bid their "absolute highest" in such auctions, as they know that if they get outbid, they will have another few minutes to bid again. So you are less likely to have two competing bidders submitting their highest bids. It also removes the excitement of the clock running down, for both parties, so limits the recreational value of auctions (buying or selling). If it stops being fun, folk stop doing it.

Personally, I couldn't be bothered with the faffing about, as a bidder or seller. I have never put a bid in on an auction after it's been extended.

[superchallenge]

I stated £2 and £5, but on you go.

[kl_books]

I think it's an option that would benefit some sellers and also benefit some buyers who feel like they miss out. Not all, but a significant amount. Theres no reason why it couldnt be implemented, alongside the current system and BIN, as a third option. I have lost auctions and given another 5 minutes might have bidded another few quid just incase.

[superchallenge]

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@plpmr wrote:

The majotity of listyings are not for high ticket item so a bidder is not going to sit at their computer in the early hours for an unknown amout of time.

“Another 30 minutes or so isn't going to put them off.”

It could be hours or even days.

So make it an option, as Yahoo! Auctions Japan does. On there, there's a box you can check to make the auction auto-extending or not. If you think your high-ticket item would benefit from it, enable it. If you're selling a paperclip you found, leave it turned off.

Auctions extending for hours or days isn't all that likely. Plus, even if an auction was to run on for two days with people bidding up and resetting the counter to five minutes each time, I don't see the issue. The buyers don't *have* to stick around for "hours or even days" when they ALWAYS have the option of bidding their maximum price and even if they do, that benefits the seller, surely?

The fact is that a lot of people absolutely don't bid their maximum. In an ideal world, they would. But they don't.

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@plpmr wrote:

“I really can't see how it would encourage and aid shill bidding any more than the current system does”

As long as a shiller has the unlimited time [as per a rolling auction gives them] to discover the top bid it will help them.

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Surely the chance a shiller will overbid and end up winning the auction themselves is about exactly the same with a rolling auction as it would be with a fixed-end auction? You can't see the leading bidder's top bid either way.

[plpmr]

Since you stoop to insults, I'll leave you to your own devices, by just stating -

There's no £5 increment until bidding reaches £150.

[superchallenge]

I didn't insult you. If you think "on you go" is an insult, then good luck on the rest of the internet! I was merely stating that your attempt to divert the conversation by pointing out an assumed "error" whilst ignoring the rest of the comment was weak. That's all. The "play the man, not the ball" tactic is very poor.

The bidding on the auction in question went as follows:-

£8.99 opening bid - £21, £22, £30, £31, £35, £36, £37, £41, £42, £43, £48, £49, £54, £55, £60, £62, £72, £74, £75, £76, £78, £88, £90, £92, £94, £100, £102, £104, £106, £116, £118, £120, £122, £124, £126, £128, £128, £130, £142, £144 and sold.

I only stated what I could see. Maybe they're auto-bids, but they're bids. I apologise for seeing a £5 rise in the bid and stating that the bid had risen by £5.

Not that it even remotely matters, which you already know.

[pillarboxred]

Bidders on eBay only bid at the last minute. What you are proposing would mean no last minute. The idea has been discussed since I joined in late 2000. You are up against mainly cheapskates and tightwads so if you bid early and high, your maximum, you will usually win.

[pillarboxred]

I'm glad the incremental bidder lost, they deserved to.