Private Seller And HMRC

Hello , i know this question was asked many times. But i need to ask im so upset.

Im selling my own private items , many of them. I paid for them used for a short period of time and selling them becouse i don't use them. on all of items im selling i lose money , on my last sell will be nearly 1k lost ( push bike ) many of them was bought on ebay aswell, never got profit on those items. 

 

And now is a chance im gonna have to paid Extra Tax on top of that ?

still got many items for sale and they what if i sell even more ?  but they are still my items i paid for them in my own money. as i said before never ever make a money of them and i always sell them for less what i paid ;/

 

If they gonna say PAID TAX is something i can do with this ? 

 

Thx for help 

Message 1 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

papso22
Experienced Mentor

What makes you think you might have to pay tax?

Message 2 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

i honestly don't know , they only ask for money. 😞 

 

 

Message 3 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

Have you had a letter from HMRC?

Message 4 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

no , just sold a bike and they ebay ask for NIN

Message 5 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

Example — selling unwanted items

You’re clearing out your attic and decide to sell your unwanted items using online marketplaces. None of the items you sell are worth more than £6,000.

It’s unlikely that you’ll need to tell us about this income or pay any tax, no matter how many items you sell.

 

If you sell an item for more than £6,000, you may need to pay Capital Gains Tax. The £6,000 value for a single personal possession for Capital Gains Tax, also applies to the total value of items which form a set, for example:

  • chess pieces

  • books by the same author or on the same subject

  • matching ornaments, such as vases or statuettes

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to-tell-hmrc-about-your-income-from-online-platforms#s...

 

  • If you are selling unwanted personal possessions such as old toys or clothes, this would not be classed as trading or miscellaneous income, and there is usually no tax to pay. In some circumstances there may be capital gains tax when selling valuable items such as jewellery, this is covered in our flowchart.

 

https://www.litrg.org.uk/news/selling-online-make-sure-you-keep-clear-records

 

Do I have to share information with HMRC?

From January 2024, new UK digital sales reporting rules require digital platforms like eBay to share information with them. However, this reporting doesn’t change your tax obligations.

On eBay, this should only affect newly registered accounts in 2024, which will extend to all accounts in 2025.

eBay will only report if you pass certain yearly sales thresholds:

  • If your total sales on eBay exceed €2000, or roughly £1740, after fees.

  • If you complete 30 or more sales transactions on eBay.

In general, selling personal items is not taxed if they’re below £6,000 and you’re not selling as part of a business.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sellercentre/selling/selling-online-and-hmrc

Message 6 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

Selling personal possessions

Personal possessions are items that belong to you for your own use. You may have bought them or received them as a gift.

Personal possessions might include things like:

  • clothing
  • ornaments
  • kitchen equipment
  • table and chairs
  • jewellery
  • computers and phones

If you’re selling personal possessions you probably do not have to pay Income Tax on these.

If you sell an item for more than £6,000, you may need to pay Capital Gains Tax. The £6,000 value for a single personal possession for Capital Gains Tax, also applies to the total value of items which form a set, for example:

  • chess pieces
  • books by the same author or on the same subject
  • matching ornaments, such as vases or statuettes

Example — selling unwanted items

You’re clearing out your attic and decide to sell your unwanted items using online marketplaces. None of the items you sell are worth more than £6,000.

It’s unlikely that you’ll need to tell us about this income or pay any tax, no matter how many items you sell.

 

Taken from GOV.UK website

Message 7 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

"items i paid for them in my own money. as i said before never ever make a money of them and i always sell them for less what i paid"

 

on the basis of this alone you certainly won't be due to pay income tax

Message 8 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC


@eski044 wrote:

no , just sold a bike and they ebay ask for NIN


So no-one has asked you for money.

 

Just because eBay has asked for your NI number that does not mean you will have tax to pay.

Message 9 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

thank you 😞

Message 10 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

thank you 😞 maybe i overthinkig for no reason 😞

Message 11 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

No.

 

You will never make a profit on your own items - you are simply realising your asset - only a business will make a profit and only a business pays tax on profits.

 

When selling your private items there is a tax liability - Capital Gains Tax and you even have a tax allowance for this items.  BUT for your own goods the tax is only applied to items which individually sell for £6000 more than you paid for it, after taking into account the cost of selling.  And you don't pay anthing on the first £3000.

 

This advice hopefully will reassure you - but do something else - make a record if you can of when you bought the items - something rough is absolutely fine and eBay is REALLY good at giving you a purchase and a sales history, print those off, put them in a drawer and, in the extremely unlikely event that HMRC ask for info, there it is!

 

You know, there are folk buying and selling classic cars at the moment - and some folk are making millions.  They even order a car, and sell it even before they take delivery (Ferrari have some really long waiting lists).  Millions, and not a penny tax paid because not a penny tax is due.   Puts selling stuff and getting a few quid back into your pocket into perspective, don't you think?

 

Bikes are exempt from CGT - so don't give it another thought if your didn't sell it for £6k more than you paid for it - if you did sell it for more than £6k you should notify HMRC, however there is no tax to pay.  If it happened to be, for instance, a Pinarello Dogma and you found it in a skip and sold it for £12,000 - no tax to pay!!!

 

Come back if you have any more questions because there is no such thing as a daft question and you aren't the only one worrying about this!

 

Message 12 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

To clarify, it definitely IS possible to make a profit on your own items. You may have old toys dating from the 1970s which cost a matter of pennies (15p for Matchbox cars) back in the day but may be worth £100 or more today. Or postage stamps picked up from when 1st class stamp cost 26p? Just imagine. Or old banknotes or anything remotely collectable that was liable to increase in value over time. I've sold brochures and leaflets originally picked up for free, so 100% of the sale price was profit. And it's perfectly ok to buy something as an investment too.

 

A lot of private sellers on Ebay are (should I say were?) re-sellers passing on personal possessions they originally bought several months/years earlier and there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that either. As long as you're not running a business (making things to sell) or giving the appearance of 'trading'. 

 

If it's helpful these are the guidelines for trading that HMRC uses:

Badges of Trade | Menzies LLP

Message 13 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

To clarify both my comments and yours:

 

You can certainly sell something for more than you paid for it, but this is not 'profit'.  

 

To be clear as to the reason for this,  HMRC make this distinction, you have referenced the badges of trade and one of the badges of trade is the 'intention' to make a profit, and another references length of ownership.   The nine badges together can indicate whether trade, hobby or investment activities are taking place.

 

A trader will buy or make, or improve items, generally in  quantities, that he expect to sell, generally quite quickly, for more money that it has costs him, including all the costs involved.  That is profit.  Obviously the timescales are determined by industry but one does not set up a business without the expectation of profit at some stage.

 

A person can buy something for an investment or for use and, absolutely, that item can be resold for more than was paid, but that is not profit, it is realising the investment.  

 

The difference between trade and investment is that, when trading, the expectation is to make money, to profit from sales activities.

 

An investment is only hope that the asset can, at some indeterminate time, be sold for more than was paid, with the realisation that this might never happen, that it can increase or decrease in value, all outwith the owners control.

 

Of course a toy from the 1970s can increase in value, but most of the toys from the 1970s were bought to be played with and almost all were broken and thrown away.  Very very few would have been bought for investment, and the buyer would have had absolutely no idea what their toy might be worth 50 years later, so the motive for buying was for the enjoyment of use or, perhaps, for investment.  And something can be bought for enjoyment and become an investment.

 

While your 15p matchbox toy might be worth £100 today, it might be worth £80 or £120 next year.  How did anyone know which one to keep in the 1970s?  Some are worth thousands today (and not just the pristine, never been played with, never taken out of box items) and some are worth 15p.

 

Problem is 'profit' certainly is the term used - rather mis-used,  for selling something for more than was paid for it.  For tax purposes though, profit refers to the amount of money a trader has earned from ALL his buying and selling activities, not just because he bought something and sold it for more money. 

 

If, as a trader, I sell buy 1000 necklaces at £25 each and sell them individually on eBay for £50 each with free postage, over a 12 months tax year, then I've sold them for £25000 more than I paid, but this is not profit.  If my listing costs were £3500, and my FVFs were £4500, buying costs £25000, my postage costs £5000, and my business overheads and £5000, my profit, at the end of 12 months, would be £7000.  

 

If, however, I only sold 70 in that tax , and promoted them all at 5%, I would have made a loss.   Even without a profit this is trading, as I would have had the 'intention' of making a business profit.  (Though making a loss too often could lead HMRC to determine you are not a trader, particularly if you continually offset losses against your other tax liabilities).

 

Determining whether something is a hobby, an investment or trading determines which tax laws do and do not apply.

 


Message 14 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

@magpiecorner1 

 

Great replies and clarification.

Message 15 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

My point was that it's often the items you may have had for years that may accrue in value, to the extent that a toy car that may have cost 15p back then may now be worth 10,000 times as much. And there is no way that a business or trader buying items to sell on could dream of realising that kind of profit margin.

 

It's unlikely to still be worth 15p. More typically it'll be £15 or so. But collectables can vary wildly in price (I've seen the same item sell for £25 and for 99p) and the nature of collecting is that items are bought and sold on (e.g. in job lots).  You can easily look like you're trading when you're not - same as you can when dealing with an inheritance or clearing a relative's home and contents.

 

If you held an investment, like an ISA or pension, I think you'd want to be able to sell or cash it in at a profit, just as a trader would. You'd reasonably hope to receive more than you paid in.

 

But I agree with you, talking about 'profit' is meaningless when we consider personal possessions. And pretty meaningless too if you're trading, because the HMRC trading allowance is based on income rather than profit. And with collectables (even before Ebay blew a hole in its own market) buying and selling is more often a zero sum game.

 

Ultimately, each case is unique and has to be dealt with on its own merits. For example I'm presently having to sell postage stamps, originally bought for personal use, simply because there's little chance of them being used. Sadly, the resale value is a lot lower than the usage one.

Message 16 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

I'm not getting your point - you are describing ownership and investment - and I have explained why selling your own items that you own, either for pleasure or because you 'thought' they 'might' increase in value, does not have a 'profit' element, your original point was ' it definitely IS possible to make a profit on your own items'.

 

Some traders do dream of buying something that they can sell for 10,000 as much, though almost exclusively those selling selling second hand vintage and antique items (or perhaps extra special things such as Ferraris with small production runs that have been on order for a couple of years).  Especially when it is traders who can better identify an item that they can pick up for a small amount of money and resell for many many thousands - because they are clever and knowledgeable.  Though few would have that as a business plan,  I've seen it happen!

 

You mentioned Matchbox cars in an earlier post - I don't believe even one Matchbox car from the 1970s has recently (or ever) been sold for £150,000, though if one was it would  be exempt from Capital Gains Tax - mechanical item!  Star Wars would have been a better investment, I think.  But I have seen the wee cars sold at car boots for pennies (think I've done it myself) - cheap toys for kiddies draws parents to stalls. 

 

Shares and ISAs are indeed bought as investments - well, what else can you do with them unless its a very significant amount?  Apart from sometimes being able to vote and sometimes being eligible for company discounts.  And of course they are bought with the very reasonable expectation that they going to be worth when you sell them than is paid for them - but in fact this is not a reasonable expectation, because if you bought shares one day and sold them the following day, the reasonable expectation is that they would not have increased in value, and very often they would be worth less than you paid for them, when taking into account the costs of purchasing, selling and other fees - though they could go up hugely in price in a day.  You would HOPE that, when you sell them you will get more money than you paid, but you cannot EXPECT to make money, you will not know when you buy what you will sell them for and you cannot give even a reasonable timescale when you bought them WHEN you sell.   Often it is other people's investing that guides an investor - and one might reasonably expect the Wall Street Crash to be a very rare event!  And pensions are invested in shares.

 

I'm sure Elon Musk - a very clever man - didn't expect his company value to fall by millions in a few days - his business didn't directly lose any money or gain any money - and nor did those investing in his company, unless they chose to sell their shares, in which case they would have got - not what they might reasonably have expected based on the historic share price - but simply their worth on the day!

 

That is investing.

 

'But I agree with you, talking about 'profit' is meaningless when we consider personal possessions. And pretty meaningless too if you're trading, because the HMRC trading allowance is based on income rather than profit. And with collectables (even before Ebay blew a hole in its own market) buying and selling is more often a zero sum game.'

 

Thank you - a difficult concept to explain, especially as business accounting uses the terms 'gross' and nett' profit - but I ignored those terms as we are discussing tax implications and gross profit has nothing to do with tax.

 

But not meaningless if you are trading - its the whole point of the exercise!  People ONLY go into most business, especially such as an eBay business - to make a profit!  Not easy but we all aspire to this!  No idea what a 'zero sum' game is but the many sections of the second hand vintage, antique and collectibles market is very strong and - for an eBay B2C (business to consumer) sellers - often has the ability to realise profit margins very far above the margins that sellers of many newly manufactured items can hope to achieve.  EBay has created a virtually unlimited worldwide market for small businesses where there was virtually no access before the they began.  We sell American, European and British collectibles to America almost daily on eBay!

 

The £1000 trading allowane - if it is this trading allowance to which you are referring - is indeed based on income and not profit - but I think for a completely different reasons. 

 

Allowances, expenses and reliefs!!!.  

 

The scene in The Accountant might be US taxes - but I'm sure UK accountants would draw on their inner Chistian Wolff/Ben Affleck  if presented with accounts showing an annual turnover under £1000.  Or even £3000, if the rumoured forthcoming rise is true.

 

An annual turnover of £1000 cannot reasonable create any profit element when you put in your buying costs, selling costs, costs for equipment, wifi, heating and lighting, car costs, room allowances etc etc etc - even using simplified accounting, though traditional accounting would be way more fun - you might owe a few pennies, but you wouldn't owe more than VERY low hundreds in tax,  - BUT you are very likely to make a trading loss and then the HMRC  could owe you money if you pay other taxes - and even HMRC wants to drain the swamp, not fill it with aligators!

 

Message 17 of 18
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Re: Private Seller And HMRC

My point was that the value of a modest toy (or record) that originally cost peanuts decades ago (or freebies that you collected) and is now a collectable or antique will often have increased well beyond the wildest dreams of most traders and businesses. Unless of course a 'trader' held on to their purchase for many years, but then is that 'trading'?

 

Whereas buying to sell over a shorter timeframe would often mean you've as much chance to make a loss as a gain. Hence zero sum. Unless you uniquely can predict the future?

 

Matchbox cars really DID cost 15p back in the day (one of mine has a shop sticker on the box) and earlier models might have cost a shilling/5p or even less.  So 10,000 times 15p is £1500. Some rare variants will fetch that, depending on what today's collectors are prepared to pay. Of course, you wouldn't have bought them as investments back in the day but still know the price they can fetch today.

 

Collectables tend to appreciate in value for as long as their collectors are around. If they're no longer visiting or the market is saturated then prices are likely to drop. I've seen this too.

 

And the Ebay mantra (at least from comments on these forums) seems to be that if you re-sell anything then you MUST somehow be running a business, regardless of whether there is any profit involved. Also, that businesses CAN lose money, which admittedly wasn't the most impressive pep talk I've ever heard.

 

I'm inside the basic allowance threshold but keep my own purchase/sales records anyway. Luckily, I also know which 50% of my personal possessions I have contrived to lose money on... 😉

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