Private Sales and HMRC

[hunkee1]

Hi there, 

just wondering if someone could maybe share a little advice with me please ? 
I Do receive disability benefits for a Genuine Brain condition which I am going to be getting an operation for to help! 
in the meantime, I have had help and have sold a few items I didn't need! 
a Sim Card, Wifi boosters that didn't work in my house and I also had a box of earphones which are really sought after, I bought them ages ago as Faulty or Spares, It turned out about 12-15 sets were actually brand new, So I sold them to get rid of them as they'd been lying about for ages! 
When I check my sales, It's about 18 items and it says I've made about £1900 

Im a bit worried that eBay will contact HMRC in January due to the amount! I'm Sure eBay have taken fees or listing fees and they take these from a different account from the one I use for everyday use! 
As this was stuff I had lying about and I was clearing stuff to tidy my house Is it Likely that HMRC will contact me or is it really Business sellers who are making a proper income ? I am just a Private Seller and only sold those items, I have only sold random bits and pieces in the past, This is the most I've sold, and I haven't sold anything more! I'm just worried if HMRC Get involved then the DWP may also get involved! It's kinda stressing me! 
if the HMRC did contact me I would literally be telling them my Profit was 'Nil' as I just got my money back for the items! 
do you think I have anything to be concerned about or should I just forget about it ? It's not over 30 items and with Listing Fees, Postage, and other money eBay have taken off me I'm probably very much closer to their £1740 odd limit! 

Any Help Much appreciated 👍🏻

[roger_roger_over_and_nowt]

"do you think I have anything to be concerned about ".

No ,you are probably over thinking things and don't come across as an unregistered business seller.

[hunkee1]

Thank you Very much for your reply, It's Really Appreciated! 

I usually Don't sell, I just buy, It was just a few bits I bought then didn't need, like I said the earphones have sat in my house for ages and I've been clearing and redecorating my Livingroom and Bedroom, I Don't sell full time and I don't sell regularly either, It was just the amount I was a bit concerned about! 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

I am 100% Not a Business Seller, It's only my own stuff 👍🏻 

again, Ghank you very much for your reply 😉

[btr.style]

Firstly yes as you've exceeded that sale quantity/amount your sales figures will be reported to HMRC. Doesn't matter that it's less after fees and postage, turnover is the key here. 

It's up to them how they will act or if they will look further into it. Nobody here can say what HMRC will do. 

Being a business seller is anyone selling something they've bought, acquired or made to generate a profit from. It's not exclusively those correctly registered on a business account. Nobody here knows you or your circumstances and that would be down to you to prove with HMRC should they question you about it. Like with owning and selling 16 (that's how many it looks like you've sold) brand new identical pairs of headphones. 

It almost goes without saying you've profited from them and it does look like you've bought them to sell them on for profit with them being "sought after". If what you say is true and there's a genuine reason you've bought so many for personal use then you'd best make sure you've got all receipts and can explain it if they ask. 

The mobile number thing does also seem acquiring/buying something to profit from. 

Nobody apart from you knows what the truth is. If you did buy the headphones as a bit of a side hustle to profit from, then if you've taken over £1000 on them (before fees, postage, etc), you should be doing a self assessment tax return and declaring the sales. Only you can answer that honestly. You saying you haven't profited is simply your word here and doesn't necessarily mean it's true. 

Whatever the truth is, if you have bought them to make profits on, profits exceed 1k and you aren't doing self assessment tax returns, and HMRC investigate, they won't be best pleased. 

[papso22]

Simple answers:

1. Yes ebay will report your sales to HMRC in January.

2. You may be contacted by HMRC. 

3. If they contact you, you will need to either convince HMRC that you are/were not trading in headphones (or anything else), or account for any tax due.

[1956glyn]

Hi

So far as the DWP is concerned a lot of disability benefits are NOT means tested.  Only you know what benefits you claim so maybe google to see  if they will indeed be affected by your Ebay sales.

Yes HMRC may contact you but to be honest i think you have enough on your plate at the minute and i would try not to overthink things and just wait and see what happens.....and deal with things then.

Good luck with your operation and hopefully a speedy recovery.

[secularsid]

You need not worry.   The rules for HMRC and eBay regards when one is selling in the course of a business and when one is selling incidentally are very clear.  BUT crucial.

Let’s see why:  If you are a consumer buying from a Trader you get a whole load of rights, enshrined in law.. The automatic and unequivocal right to cancel within 14 days if bought online. The automatic right to all consumer law, such as being told the sellers name and business address. A mandatory guarantee (yes even with second had goods if bought online…).. and so on. 

So we see why many errant trader pretend to be ‘Private’… They get to hide their ID, name, address, give no guarantees ( pretty much) and no ‘returns’.  It also shows they are dishonest.  And yet, we all know eBay allow this, positively encourage it in fact.

I have complained about one person who buys and sells goods, refurbishes them, has a shop online and on eBay and even a VAT number… but claims to be private, (WOW!)  and eBay will not remove him?  He makes them cash.  They say he is not breaking any rules…  Did I say one?  I have complained about many and always get the same reply. Do a quick search on any electrical item, JCB etc and see what I mean.  How does someone selling 30 mini diggers and has a showroom get to be a private seller????  EBay allow it and say ‘but how do we know his status… he could be private’?

So is you buy goods, even a few and change them, paint them, re package them, or even just sell them for a profit YOU ARE TRADING! If you go you your wardrobe and dig out an old coat, a radio, a car even and sell a hundred of these things which were not bought to resell and are genuinely your old goods you are still PRIVATE.

Quick note. If you inherit goods and sell this is also Private…  a house clearance for a dead aunt for example… BUT you have to properly inherit. 

ANYONE who feels the selling record or goods for sale or description looks like a person is selling in the course of business should report to eBay under ‘Business Seller Fails to give correct contact details.   This is simply, just click

‘Report This Item’ on the advert, then under

 ‘category’ click ‘Listing Practices’ then under

‘Reason for Report’ click ‘Other Listing Practices or Policy Violations’ then under

‘Detailed Reason’  click ‘Business seller fails to display correct contact detail’. 

You then can put in a few words of explanation.

I just reported a business that claims in its advert to buy used and old stock of radios and sell them on. They have sold 0ver 100 of these and currently have 30 for sale… all the same make… They are clearly a business.  Here is eBay’s reply to my report: I am not allowed to name the private business because eBay are protecting their illegal advert.

“What happened:
We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy ”.  They really, really do not care about the consumer being deprived of their rights! Normally now I have a chat with them and they say ‘thins we will deal with it but will not tell you’…. and then a week later the trader is still there!
 

I can’t explain how I deal with this herein…. But I do, very effectively and in co-operation with HMRC.

It also happens to be a criminal offence contrary to The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading egs 2008 to hide a trader’s ID. I ALWEAYS REPORT THEM TO HMRC who have a new department since Jan 2024 to look into these people. eBay, in spite of their blind eye turning always co-operate with HMRC and hidden identity is not an issue for HMRC.

Time we consumers and good traders took back eBay!

BTW, I have been on eBay 21 years and sold and bought over £200k and am a private seller.  Honesty is the best policy

[jckl1957]

Your sales will be reported to HMRC in January.

Looking at your sold items, I can see that you sold maybe 11 sets of earphones at £109.99.

That is the sort of selling pattern that HMRC would wonder about.

Your other sales are not really (in my view) items that the average person would have sitting about in their house.

Possibly, HMRC will contact you.  If they do, and you are asked to complete a self-assessment, you may need receipts.  If I were you, I would make sure that I had any relevant paperwork ready, especially for items like the earphones, the SIM card and any other expensive items.

[btr.style]

"as the DWP is concerned a lot of disability benefits are NOT means tested"

The only thing to look into with that though is if it is a buy to sell for profit thing, it might be considered as someone is well enough to work. There's things like permitted work where someone applys to the DWP for permission and if approved, they are allowed to do something like 18 hours of work a week or earn £180 a week (whichever is reached first). 

Also it would be wise for OP to look at what else they are recieving as if they get housing benefit and council tax reduction, those are means tested. 

[btr.style]

"ANYONE who feels the selling record or goods for sale or description looks like a person is selling in the course of business should report to eBay under ‘Business Seller Fails to give correct contact details. "

NOBODY should do this. As myself and others have mentioned before, this clearly isn't for reporting those on a private account trading as a business. There isn't actually any way to report those who are doing so. 

That report reason is for reporting businesses who aren't showing the correct contact details (and thus aren't complying with the law) such as if someone's shown address was Mickey mouse, Disneyland. That would fall under that report reason and possibly the seller would be forced to change it. 

Using that reason to report businesses in private accounts will just mean the support staff look at it, see the account is private and so no need to show contact details anyway, and then close the report with no action taken. 

[*vyolla*]

I've just had a look at your listings and I can't see HMRC  agreeing that a private seller would have 15 pairs of brand new Sennheisers to sell.

Worse case scenario, if you turned over more that £1,000 in a tax year, then you'll be asked to complete a tax return.

The first lot of data-sharing will cover the 2023/24 tax year.

[nat11911]

And I don't think it helps Op's case by adding to the listing:

"I Only have 2 or 3 Sets Left until my new stock comes ..."

[ett1954]

@hunkee1   Although in the case of the earphones it could be said that you are trading, albeit at a very low level, are you sure you have correctly assessed your sales for the year?  It is only the sales made in 2024 that you need to be concerned about for now.

Your feedback only indicated that you have sold two sets of these earphones in the last 12 months and I cannot see feedback for any other sales in this period.  If your figure of £1900 sales is correct for 2024 to date, and it may be, then you must have sold a lot more with no feedback given.  Check against your current sales for this year only.

To re-iterate it is only sales from 1st January 2024 to the end of this year which will be reported to HMRC in January 2025.  If you are below the £1700 or 30 items you can breathe easy and relax.  This does not, however, absolve you from your responsibilities to your customers, as has been pointed out by others on this thread.

Good luck with your operation.

[magpiecorner1]

Can't be covering the 23/24 tax year if it is from 1 January 2024.  

It will only account for the last 3 months of that year.  The deadline for registering for self assessment for the 23/24 tax year is 5 October 2024 and the last day for sending in self assessment firms (with receiving penalties) is 31 January 2025.  So HMRC can watch but can't action a great deal.

They will receive 9 months of the 24/25 year, though last date for registration for self employment would be 5 October 2025, and last date for sending in firm (without penalty) is 31 January 2026.

This is an enormous and rather daft anomaly, simply because most, if not all, EU tax years are 1 Jan to Dec 31, whilst UK is either 6 Apr to 5 Apr (And 1 Apr to 31 Mar is perfectly acceptable!  Probably never occurred to the EU that January is HMRCs busiest month of the year, every year, either.

And I can't see the UK changing to the EU dates either, my own fiscal year has been 1 Jan to 31 December for well over 30 years, as you could decide your fiscal year dates until this year, when I have had to change to the UK tax year dates, and with it a 15 month tax year.

Though it will be very interesting to see which fiscal year HMRC used for the arbitrary £1740/30 items.  It should be in line with the EU regulations, but if so, it will certainly put HMRC in a pickle!!!

Whilst there will certainly be lots and lots of useful information, such as large turnovers, continual property lets, identifying items which may come under CGT, and lots of other stuff, it will take more than one set of figures of figures (and eBay had a actually stated to some private sellers that their accounts information won't begin to be  collated until January 2025), before anyone is in any danger of being questioned about turnover over £1740 or 30 items.

In my humble opinion anyway.

[ett1954]

This isn't an EU decision, or a UK decision, but an international agreement by the 37 OECD countries.  Most, if not all, operate their taxation systems on a calendar year - the UK is the anomaly.

Whilst the partial figures will only give 3 months of the past year (23-24) and only 9 months of the 24-25 year, it will certainly identify to HMRC the most significant traders on the respective platforms and help identify those not currently known to them.  This is actually, in my opinion, a good starting point.  What this also now does is collate the trading activities of sellers across all the digital platforms through their tax identification number.

I am sure the tax authorities from the respective countries will each have their own systems and priorities.  Many of these countries already have systems and protocols in place which are already enforced much more strictly than those of the UK.

[*vyolla*]

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@magpiecorner1 wrote:

Can't be covering the 23/24 tax year if it is from 1 January 2024.  

It will only account for the last 3 months of that year. 

---

It does cover tax year April 2023 to April 2024. 

eBay's reporting from 1st Jan 2024 will cover up to the tax year end in April 2024.

Yes, as you point out it's the last 3 months, that should be obvious. 

[hunkee1]

Thank you very much Everyone for your help and advice! I'll just have to see what HMRC Do say or Don't say as we are I suppose just Guessing with it being new! 

The SIM card, I bought for my personal use as it was a Memorable Number, But it sat for a few months and I decided it was going to be too much trouble to change my number, with Doctors, Hospital, Etc So I sold it, But for the exact same price as I had paid for it! 
Same with the WiFi Boosters, I had EE Fibre Broadband installed and because they're EE/BT I thought the Boosters would work in my house, But they didn't! They were sitting in the way so I relisted them and sold them for what I'd paid just to recoup my money! 
with the earphones, I bought them as Faulty/For Spares, I have a couple of sets myself and they are Very Rare now, None on Amazon, None on eBay, And about 15/16 of the sets in the box were Brand New which I hadn't expected, So yes I did sell them and I made a bit profit, Unfortunately all these sales were over May/June this year, I hadn't sold anything for ages, and I don't have anything for sale now! The 'When my new stock arrives' etc Were just sales techniques so they would buy from me rather than someone else, But it turns out there was No one else selling them! It shows my Turnover as being £1900, I'm only Slightly over the £1740 ish it says you're allowed, I am Not trying to avoid paying Tax, It's just if it does come to that I could lose what I've fought for years for! 
what if I got say 2 of the buyers to request a refund ? I'd be better refunding them than this going to HMRC ?? And it would bring my turnover down to what you're allowed ? 
I genuinely didn't mean to sell as many sets as like I say they were all supposed to be for spares and I was going to use them to make some Binaural 3D Microphones for myself, But it covered what I paid and got them out the way! 
I still have a couple of people messaging me wanting to buy some but I'm Not relisting them, But you Genuinely can't buy them anywhere else! When Amazon had Tons of them they were £39.99 even went down to £37.99 at one point, Then when they became scarce they shot up to £203 on Amazon! I suppose I just got caught up in it all a bit, I wasn't aware on the £1000 limit from January as like I say I really didn't ever sell much ! 

I will take everyone's advice on board and I'll update you if/when I am or am not contacted! I wasn't selling as a business, I have no time for that, I'm just someone who scored a few sets of New sealed earphones that I didn't expect and thought I wasn't doing any harm by selling them on! One buyer said their Nephew was Blind and recorded everything in 3D sound and I was the only person who had exactly what he needed, I thought I was helping 😞 It Always backfires when you try to help someone or sell stuff cheaper! 

Thank you again 👍🏻

[*vyolla*]

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@hunkee1 wrote:

what if I got say 2 of the buyers to request a refund ? 

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Don't do this, it'll just end up getting messy.

I'm sure it'll be fine, none of us know what will happen once HMRC receive the reports but you don't appear to be a big fish.

[vinylscot]

I wouldn't bother trying any jiggery-pokery with refunds etc. Who knows how HMRC would look at these.

Work out your worst case scenario, i.e. if HMRC refuse to believe you are a private seller. How much tax will you need to pay? It won't be a great deal, going on your figures to date, unless you do much more "trading" - it's not the end of the world.

[hunkee1]

Thank you 👍🏻 I appreciate your reply! Nope, I’m not out to make anymore 😉