Item sent through Royal Mail has not arrived with buyer. What to do if (or when) buyer opens a case?

[hawkwind_gaming]

Hello. I posted an item to a buyer on Monday 3rd June using Royal Mail Tracked 48. The estimated delivery date was June 5th-6th. The buyer is based in Scotland and I am based in England. I've been checking the delivery tracking on the Royal Mail website and the tracking has not updated since the item was posted. It just says "accepted at post office". The buyer hasn't opened a not received case yet but I am expecting they will do so, very understandably, if it doesn't arrive soon. How long should I wait before making a compensation claim against Royal Mail? Items sent through Tracked 24 or 48 are insured up to £150 and the value of the item is well below that. I've never had to make a claim as I've never had an item not received case before.

[*vyolla*]

It's possible that your buyer has received their item and that tracking hasn't updated. 

Have they opened an item not received claim or messaged you to let you know that they haven't received it yet?

[hettsville]

For Royal Mail tracked 48 you cannot make a claim until 7 working days after the estimated delivery date.

So I'd say it would be around the 18th June.

You would have to make the claim through the Royal Mail website.

You would need a photo of your postage receipt from the P.O. or the email confirmation if the item was collected.

[*knight-rider*]

Unless the customer actually contacts you stateing that it hasn't arrived, i would nothing, including contacting them. It could be that tracking simply hasn't caught up, but if you contact the buyer asking if it's arrived because tracking show's it hasn't or isn't shown as delivered, they may take advantage and try to claim. I'm not saying they would, but you don't know them from a hole in the wall, so untill they do, i'd say nothing.

[thesmokingrunner]

I had a situation recently when I had to put in a 'missing' claim with Royal Mail.

First off, you can't make a claim until 10 working days after the latest delivery date; in my case I posted on 14th March but couldn't submit a claim until 05th April because of weekends and Easter. Believe me, the time drags.

Secondly, you can probably forget the idea of meaningful compensation. If you intend to claim for the value of the lost item you will need the original purchase receipt; this is the amount Royal Mail will pay in compensation. If you do not have proof of original cost you will receive a book of 1st Class stamps (I recieved a book of 8).

I'm sorry to say you are pretty much stymied here: if the item isn't delivered and buyer opens an INR case you really have no choice but to refund. If you don't eBay will do it for you. If the item happens to be delivered post-refund you really need to hope you've got an honest buyer who will pay up, because there's nothing you can do otherwise. And if you do eventually lodge a claim with Royal Mail I hope you either have the original receipt or are happy with some 1st Class stamps.

Good luck.

[9150simon]

Also just to add to everything above, it might be worth putting your tracking reference into the Royal Mail Track and Trace website as it may show as delivered on there and just not have updated onto ebays site.

[hawkwind_gaming]

Hello. The buyer has just opened a not received request. The tracking on Ebay and on the Royal Mail website has still not updated since the 3rd of June. Should I send the refund to the buyer straight away?

[sml192]

If the tracking doesn't show delivered then you will need to issue a refund within 3 business days of the case being opened. 

[thesmokingrunner]

Not good news, @hawkwind_gaming It's a long shot but the item may be delivered in the next couple of days; if not you're going to have to refund the buyer and then open a claim with Royal Mail.

There is, as you're probably (now) aware, a significant difference between eBay's and Royal Mail's policies for lost/delayed deliveries. For eBay you have to refund within 3 days of an INR being opened, for Royal Mail you have to wait 10 working days after the latest possible delivery date. Occasionally (though not very often) an item will be delivered in the 3-day eBay window and a case can be closed without refunding, but if an item arrives after the buyer has been refunded it really does depend on the buyer being honest enough to, well, refund the refund. Unfortunately I've not heard of that happening a great deal.

You won't be able to lodge a claim until the item has reached 'Latest estimated delivery date+ 10 working days', so a Tracked 48 posted on 03rd June would have a latest estimated delivery date of 06th June, then add 10 working days gives you 21st June as the earliest you could start a claim (and before anyone gets pedantic I'm counting 03rd June as Day 0, 04th June as Day 1  and so on). This link should get you started:

https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/325/

And don't get your hopes up about 'compensation' too much: unless you have the original receipt for the item you sold your compensation will be limited to a book of 1st Class stamps.

Good luck.

[hettsville]

The wait is actually 7 working days after expected delivery date for RM48 tracked items.

But I only know that because I had to make a claim last week.

[dancewithadingo]

Good Morning Hawkwind.

Sorry to hear about your problems. Just a couple of points,over the last 2 years for the first time ever I made two claims through Royal Mail for lost items.

In both cases they were brilliant. They required the PO receipt and details of the sale.  In both cases they paid in full within 3 days of submitting an online claim.

I appreciate that things may have changed somewhat over the last 24 months but do make the claim,when allowed, and you may receive the same excellent service that I did.

Additionally recently an item I posted took 7 days to reach the buyer and like you the site wasn't uploading the latest updates until day 7. 

 I also gave him the address and other details of his local sorting office to enable him to check with them to see if they could throw any light on the situation.

Finally as one last throw of the dice ask your buyer to check with his neighbours to see if they may have taken the parcel in and not told him.  I would suggest leaving it until the last possible moment ie day three before refunding to give the item more time to turn up.   What you don't want is to refund then find that the item has been delivered. 

Good luck

[thesmokingrunner]

You are indeed correct @hettsville  so many thanks for that.

@hawkwind_gaming  Item posted on 03rd June by RM48 would have a latest estimated delivery date of 06th; seven working days (Mon-Fri only unless the sender has chosed Guaranteed Saturday delivery, apparently) from then gives you Monday 17th so I believe you will be able start a claim with Royal Mail on Tuesday 18th June.

[the-nutwood-collection]

And don't get your hopes up about 'compensation' too much: unless you have the original receipt for the item you sold your compensation will be limited to a book of 1st Class stamps.

According to the T&Cs for T48, the compensation is market value:

11.3 Subject to clause 11.9 our liability to you will be limited to the lower of:
11.3.1 the market value of the Item (not including the market value of any message or information it carries) at the time the Item was damaged or lost; and
11.3.2 one hundred and fifty pounds (£150).

So, theoretically, the compensation should be market value, i.e. the seller's invoice to the buyer.

[thesmokingrunner]

Ok, this is a bit tiresome to be honest.

Congratulations on being an expert on Ts&Cs and well done on finding the clause that backs up your claim and all that, but you missed quoting Clause 11.2 which mentions, inter alia, "...any other forms of satisfactory proof" being required by RM in respect to a claim being made and Clause 11.7, which Royal Mail states they will not be responsible in any circumstances for loss of profit (qv sub-Clause 11.7.1).

Had you ever completed an online claim for Tracked 48 you should have seen, on the right hand side of the claim form, a list headed 'What you need to provide' the sub-section "For compensation of your item, you must also provide:" includes the requirement "Original proof of value if claiming for the contents, eg. till receipt, bank statement, etc"

So for the avoidance of doubt: "Other forms of satisfactory proof" mentioned in Clause 11.2 of RM's Ts&Cs includes proof of purchase. If someone makes a claim for loss and cannot provide proof of purchase showing the original amount paid for the item, Royal Mail will limit compensation paid to a book of (currently 8x1st Class stamps). Compensation is paid neither at market value nor at any amount alleged to have been paid for the item by the claimant.

[hawkwind_gaming]

I have already refunded the buyer and the tracking has still not updated. I must wait until Friday 14th June to submit a claim for the loss of the item. This was confirmed to me by Royal Mail. Also I originally purchased the item online, so there is no physical receipt, but I do have an online invoice.  I should also mention that the sale value of the item is greater than the original purchase price which I paid. So it seems I will be out of pocket even if the claim is successful.

[thesmokingrunner]

Morning @hawkwind_gaming 

Well at least you have proof of the price you paid when you originally purchased the item, which is more than most people have. You will need to upload a copy of this with your claim - I believe jpeg, gif, png, tiff, pdf, doc and docx formats are acceptable, other formats are not.

Hopefully you will at least be compensated for the original price you paid for the item, plus the postage you paid, so technically you'll not be out of pocket. Granted you'll not make a profit on the sale but you'll not lose anything either, unlike people in a similar situation who don't have proof of original purchase as they are unable to claim for any loss over and above the cost of postage.

[merv9104]

Personally I'd ring Royal mail in hope they can through tracking system tell you where item currently is and why not delivered. Worth a try

[dancewithadingo]

Good Morning Hawkwind

You are worrying unduly and too early. Put your claim into Royal Mail and see what they have to say.

As I said 3 days ago I have found them to be really helpful and efficient. All I had to do was send a copy of the Post Office receipt and a photo of the sale particulars.  On one sale the figure involved was £54.00 and within 48 hours I received  a cheque for £50.00 and my second claim was dealt with equally quickly.

I appreciate that they have recently reduced the compensation for 'signed for' items to £20.00 but that should not stop you from putting in your claim.  

Have you or your buyer contacted the local sorting office and has he been in touch with his neighbours to see if they are holding the item?

Your statement that you will be out of pocket as the sale value was more than the purchase price is not correct if Royal Mail refund the actual cost.  You will finish up 'all square' hopefully.

Make the claim asap. 

[hawkwind_gaming]

Hello. I am looking for further advice please. I refunded the buyer on the 10th of June. I submitted a claim to Royal Mail for the lost item on the 14th of June. After multiple phone calls to Royal Mail, the tracking for the item has finally updated. It is now in Scotland and is scheduled to be delievered to the buyer today, the 29th of June.  This is almost 4 weeks after the item was originally dispatched. As I have already refunded the buyer, do I have any recourse legally? As things stand currently, the buyer will have effectively received the item for free while I am out of pocket.

[papso22]

You may have legal recourse but this is not the place for legal advice.

What we can tell you is that ebay will have no interest or involvement in what you do next. 

You can ask the buyer to pay again, outside ebay, or provide them with the return postage and hope they send it back.

If they don't co-operate then that's when you need legal advice.