I have sold nothing in 6 months since the buyer protection fee was introduced

[markey164]

I always have 20-30 active listings on the go, and typically sell 2 or 3 items a month. My items are always priced competitively to sell, but lately I've noticed I haven't sold anything since February. When I reviewed my listings this evening, I noticed they were all listed for several pounds more than the price I had entered in the listing.

I've realized this is because of this new buyer protection fee. However having checked, when setting the item price, there is absolutely nothing that tells you if you enter a price of £34.99, it will actually be listed for £37.11. I can't believe this has passed even basic testing.    The only way I can sell things now, is to reduce my selling price to offset the fee, and in doing so, I am basically paying the buyer protection fee myself.  What a scam. What was the point of spending 20 years building up a 100% perfect record, with hundred's of positive comments, for that good conduct to be completely disregarded in favour of penalizing me! This is nothing to do with protecting buyers, this is eBay squeezing yet more profit out of their customers, Pure and Simple

I know its a case of if you don't like it go somewhere else, but sadly there is nothing else really on a par with eBay for the sheer variety of things you can buy and sell.

Ebay have made some unpopular changes over the years, but this one takes the biscuit for me!

[superchallenge]

---

@markey164 wrote:

The only way I can sell things now, is to reduce my selling price to offset the fee, and in doing so, I am basically paying the buyer protection fee myself.  What a scam. What was the point of spending 20 years building up a 100% perfect record, with hundred's of positive comments, for that good conduct to be completely disregarded in favour of penalizing me! This is nothing to do with protecting buyers, this is eBay squeezing yet more profit out of their customers, Pure and Simple

Yes, you can reduce the selling price to offset the fee, and you'll be essentially back where you were before they temporarily removed selling fees for private sellers, and before they introduced the buyer protection fee. If you've been here for 20 years, you know what it used to be like.

Before, you would list something for £30, the buyer would see the price of £30, and you would get £26.24 or so after fees.

Now, you list something for £28.15, the buyer sees the price of £30. You get £28.15.

All they've done is moved the fees from the seller to the buyer and given it a new name. It's your choice as to whether or not you let the buyer pay the fee, or alter your price so that you're paying it instead.

I don't see how that's anything to do with "penalizing" you or your good conduct.

[dch2112011]

If you haven't sold for six months the problem existed well before buyer fees - you need to look further than the new fee structures to find why you are not selling 

[j.p.greenwood]

It's truly remarkable how few sellers seem able to work this out.

If you're reducing your price to cover the BPF, that's really the same as keeping your original price and paying a selling fee.

Some of the over the top hyperbole though would make you think someone had sent 'the E-Bay boys' around to some sellers to extract money from them directly.

However, E-Bays missteps in how they implemented it and how they're hiding their heads in the sand hoping it'll blow over are future management case studies I suspect.

[foresterdon]

Perhaps you are missing the first and most important part of the headline: "I have sold nothing in 6 months...."

Well, how are your sales going since Buyers Protection was introduced?

Do let us know.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

there is nothing on a par with e bay but i am still going, i have most of my items now on another site and by the end of next week will be finished with this one (until (LOL) they realise the error of their ways and bring back proper custom postage)

[j.p.greenwood]

I'm not a trader, so honestly not bothered if things sell in a month or six months.

E-Bay has always had a 'seasonality' factor to it, anything new always has a period of adjustment, however I do think E-Bays implementation of a number of 'new' features has been a disaster for people who have relied on the income.

[thepillenwerfer]

---

@j.p.greenwood wrote:

If you're reducing your price to cover the BPF, that's really the same as keeping your original price and paying a selling fee.

It's actually better as the old fees were 30p plus 12.3% of both the item and postage prices.  The BPF is 75p plus 4% of just the item price so, apart from on very low value things, it's less.

Say in the past something sold for £5+£3.50  e-Bay would have taken £1.35 leaving the Seller with £3.65.

Now they'd take 95p.  A Seller could therefore offer that item at £4.05 and keep the price to the Buyer the same and still end up with 40p more or sell it for what they'd have actually cleared in the past and make it cheaper to the Buyer even with the BPF.  The higher the value of the item the bigger the savings.

I can't see how e-Bay are being "Greedy" or indulging in a "Cash grab."  A lot of their costs will be the same if an item makes 99p or £99.

[j.p.greenwood]

I meant 'the principal', not the minutiae of the actual fees charged, as there were so many discounts, promos and other offers going on the published fee structure never made a great deal of sense.

[anne.craig]

I've seen this argument a few times, but I think it ignores the psychology of buyers seeing that extra fee added to the price when they click through - if something was £5 plus fees and it was the fees they objected to, seeing it at £4 plus fees isn't going to change their mindset!  I don't think it is the amount of the fees that buyers are worried about, it's the fact they exist at all!  I could be wrong of course, and savvy buyers will pay what they consider to be a fair inclusive price regardless of how much is item and how much is fee, but IMO most buyers just see extra cost and balk.  There's also a question mark in a buyer's mind of how much they'll get back if they return the item in the end - I'm not sure if it's clear to them that if they pay £10 including postage and fees, they won't just get the item price as a refund, while fees are gone forever.  

[thepillenwerfer]

I agree that drawing attention to the Buyer Protection Fee is a mistake.  Why not say how much is VAT while they're at it?  In fact the would be useful to business Buyers who could claim it back.

As for people thinking it may not be returned as part of any refund it's no less clear than if they'd get the original postage charge back.  To me "Full Refund" would mean all monies that I'd handed over but, as you say, people differ.

[dch2112011]

The BPF is for buyers from private accounts  ie sales from non registered businesses and individuals  and although ebay are VAT registered there is no compunction to provide a full VAT invoice  or breakdown  for items under £250  and no need to supply a VAT breakdown or invoice to non registered buyers.

By the nature of buying online  it would be difficult if not impossible to converse with every buyer to find out their VAT status  before buying 

I suspect that the BPF may be classed as exempt from VAT on the basis that it is an insurance which would be classed as an essential supply or possibly ebay are treating it as a reverse charge where the buyer declares and pays the VAT or even the BPF is subject to sales tax rather than VAT if generated from certain countries - in which case it would be added at checkout 

[lucy_farmer]

'I suspect that the BPF may be classed as exempt from VAT on the basis that it is an insurance....'

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But it's not an insurance is it?

 It's purely a mis-named replacement of the old private sellers' fees.

Any insurance-type things on ebay are within the MGB, which has been there for many years and is still there...

[dch2112011]

I have no idea how ebay are administering the BPF - ebay have not made any statement other than it is not subject to VAT   according to a transcript posted on another thread and the three possibilities I mentioned are the only scenario's I can think of where VAT would not be applied.

ebay are pretty switched on when it comes to legalities and how they apply to ebay - so much so that even legislators find it difficult to overcome the ebay interpretations of the existing legislation - so much so that changes to the law are constantly being proposed. 

[downsizingxs]

I too despise the new charge on top of an already suffient protection. I'm finding myself giving a lot more to charity (which of course is good) rather than list lower priced items. But mid range stuff just sits there...I'm actively looking to see if there's any alternative that would suit me. Such a shame after 22 years!

[halea35]

Hi,

I am in he same boat.   I am selling mostly inherited collections  for under £5.   A lot of them are £1. I can't reduce the cost to absorb the Buyers Protection.     It is not worth me becoming a business seller as what I am selling will eventually runout.   Mined you at the rate it is now going that could be years off!!!  

I am just hopeful Ebay may start listening to the private sellers.    Not holding my breath.

[dch2112011]

If you are talking about  the account you are posting from you have made 5 sales in the last 8 days all with BPF  as apposed to 11 items during the whole of June - it looks like things are slowly picking up as the changes get accepted and the seasonal slump receeds, hopefully  it continues  and your sales will be back to pre change level in the next few months.

[faceache65]

My sales are also failing. I used to sell up to 60 items over three months. Now it's down to 20 over same time period. 

I'm ready to leave eBay. I've already started removing some items and donating to local cal charity shops or giving them away.

[gnosemalf]

I'm not surprised that people's sales have dropped.

I was looking for a birthday card (the nearest place to physically buy a decent card is 12 miles away and it was cheaper than a round trip). I found one which might have suited my nephew's quirky sense of humour which was £4.10 with free delivery. I left it to decide later and then saw a suggestion for a 'different' at the bottom of another completely different item that I was considering which was priced at £3.25. I clicked on it and it was exactly the same item priced at £4.10.

I don't know about anybody else, but if I was outside a shop and saw an item for sale in the window at £3.25 but when inside to buy it, was told that it was actually £4.10, I'd walk out. Not only that but I think that there is a question of legality here. I don't know what actually accounts for the difference in prices but in the UK, prices must be shown inclusive of VAT and unambiguous unless specifically on a business platform where buyers are likely to reclaim VAT. Even foreign websites that have significant UK sales like AliExpress have been forces to show prices inclusive of VAT.

I know that VAT is not the subject of this thread but Buyer Protection Fees make prices ambiguous. They are an unnecessary complication to a system which largely worked okay. I think that most people would accept that if they use a platform to sell stuff for money, that platform is entitled to charge a fee otherwise the platform could not exist and it would seem obvious that that fee will come out of the transaction, for the sake of simplicity. To say that the buyer is paying the fee is neither here nor there when one does the maths - it still comes out of the money that the buyer pays the seller. It's a bit like when one puts on a bet (which I haven't done in decades), you can pay tax on the wager or pay tax on your winnings one might weigh up which is more sensible but it doesn't actually make any difference. With BPF/FVF, in reality, apart from any difference in the percentage, the only difference is that there is some kind of sleight of hand going on with the 'ticket' price which is understandably putting buyers off.