Games Workshop Keep VERO striking

[quality-3d-prints]

Hi,

I have posted this to another section of the forum which I've since learnt is the wrong section to get answers or advice on this kind of subject so I'm reposting here. Not meaning to spam so sorry if this is breaking any rules and if a mod wants to delete the other post that would be great!

I keep having my 3D printed models removed by Games Workshop for apparent trademark infringement. First, I did as they suggested and prefaced and trademarked words with the suggested terms 'compatible with', 'For' etc and also making it abundantly clear(Bold letters at start of description) that they have nothing to do with GW so they're not liable etc. But they keep coming back and vero striking my listings to the point now where I have removed anything that I think could be remotely deemed anything to do with them, yet they are still coming back, and the reasons are getting more and more outlandish. 

The most recent one says I've infringed on their trademark 'WAR GAMES'.

There are 2 issues with that. Firstly I do not believe they have a trademark on the term 'WAR GAMES'. That's just Preposterous. Secondly, nowhere in my listings does it say 'WAR GAMES'. My listings say 'Wargaming' in the title but that is all. I even did a text search to make sure.

I'm getting close to having my 18 year old ebay account perma banned now because of this. I really feel like they're targeting me, I don't know why. Maybe they just pick an account to go after to get them banned and thin out the competition. There are listings up, similar to mine with Warhammer 40k in the title and any number of other trademarks that have clearly been up a very long time with 60+ sales. Yet they're left untouched.

I've tried contacting ebay support but they just say I need to contact Games Workshop. When I contact Games Workshop they say what amounts to, learn trademark law and contact my lawyer. They won't go into detail or explain anything. It seems they have free reign and ultimate power to do whatever they like on ebay, and unless I'm willing pay expensive lawyer fees I'm done.

I'm not sure what to do. Any advice?

Thanks,

Andy

[jonatjonatjonat]

Are they Games Workshop figures in the images (being used for scale?)

[*vyolla*]

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@quality-3d-prints wrote:

The most recent one says I've infringed on their trademark 'WAR GAMES'.

There are 2 issues with that. Firstly I do not believe they have a trademark on the term 'WAR GAMES'. That's just Preposterous. Secondly, nowhere in my listings does it say 'WAR GAMES'. My listings say 'Wargaming' in the title but that is all. I even did a text search to make sure.

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I've just had a look, and both WAR GAMES, WARGAMES, WarGames and Wargaming have been trademarked (not all by GW though), so that might well be the case. Extreme nitpicking considering there are thousands of listing for small plastic bricks that are being touted as compatible with Lego, and they're not chasing anyone, but you will need to take legal advice here, which may prove to be expensive.

[quality-3d-prints]

Yes they are.

[quality-3d-prints]

Thanks. Do you have a source for this? All I can find is something about some wrestling company, nothing about GW holding any of these trademarks.

[jonatjonatjonat]

With amazon at least you can state compatible with followed by a brand and everything is ok. Of course no idea if that’s the case with vero

[quality-3d-prints]

You are supposed to be able to do that with VeRO, I know because in the first emails I was getting it said that you can do that. But when I tried they were taken down. I even took the extra steps to mention at the start of the listing in bold that the models were independently designed and produced and were no way affiliated with GW as such they're not liable etc.

It seems that GW have been let off the leash by ebay and now they're abusing it. Seeing how far they can go. There's no recourse for simple peasants like me, so they can get away with it.

[*vyolla*]

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@quality-3d-prints wrote:

Thanks. Do you have a source for this? All I can find is something about some wrestling company, nothing about GW holding any of these trademarks.

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Justia Trademarks is a good one.

I feel that you're on a hiding to nothing here though unless you can get hold of somebody at GW or their legal rep (depending who you're in touch with) and try and get through to them that you're not breaching their copyright but thousands of others blatantly are.

[quality-3d-prints]

It seems GW don't have any trademarks on 'war games' or variants of it then: https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/games-workshop-limited-2417093/

[450-262541]

I think that you need to use your undoubted talents to produce stuff far less similar to GW items and IP.

People will still buy your stuff to use it with GW games but you need to stop hunting their market so blatantly. I can see why they might not like it, the first listing I saw had official GW figures in the pictures and double-eagle logos on the crates. That alone is enough for them to push the Vero button. Using words that directly stem from their IP like Hive and Imperium etc will also cause them to twitch.

Use your imagination to create similarly detailed but totally original stuff which does not seem to only suit GW product lines and they will get off your back.

[*vyolla*]

You could ask them for the serial number of the particular trademark you're infringing.

However, problem that you have here is that they have the upper hand, they don't have to play ball, they can just request the removal of your listings under VeRO and eBay won't ask for details.

[quality-3d-prints]

I think what I'll do is report them to trading standards for enforcing claims on trademarks they don't own. It probably won't do much, but at least it's something. Then I will quit ebay for good.

[450-262541]

They do own this:

https://trademarks.justia.com/775/75/n-77575293.html

[quality-3d-prints]

And if they were just going after items I was selling with a double headed eagle on I might understand, but they're not. I have 2 models with that symbol on I think, out of nearly 70(some are hidden due to VeRO) and every one of my listings have been hit by VeRO at some point. None of the listings that are hidden currently have that symbol on. Point being, if I remove that item it would make 0 difference.

[4_bathrooms · Accepted solution]

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@quality-3d-prints wrote:

I think what I'll do is report them to trading standards for enforcing claims on trademarks they don't own. 

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Trading Standards aren't going to be interested even if you do manage to report them. Trading Standards are responsible for enforcing consumer law; they are not going to be interested in a dispute between two businesses.

Whilst they are almost certainly guilty of abusing their trademark rights there is unfortunately very little you can do about it. You will either need to convince them you're doing nothing wrong so they stop voluntarily or spend thousands to obtain an injunction from the High Court which might not be granted.

[450-262541]

You know, I know and they know, that you're basically selling home-made knock-offs of their stuff out in plain sight alongside their own genuine items.

Just be thankful you got away with it for so long without them sending you a cease-and-desist letter with a large bill attached to it.

Be more original and people will want to collect your stuff because they can't get it except from you, rather than because it looks like someone else's creative ideas

[quality-3d-prints]

No I don't know, they don't know, you THINK you know. Games workshop do not sell boxes like that at all. They don't really sell much terrain in general. They also encourage people to DIY when it comes to this stuff. So it's not 'knock off' as you describe it. Secondly, open your eyes and have a look around ebay, there is a massive market for 3d printed terrain, I hardly feel 'lucky' about anything. Just have a look and see how many are displaying trademarked names in the actual titles. Go into the 40k section in ebay which is supposed to be only offical GW products, you will find TONS of 3d printed models in there that have been up for probably YEARS. So, no I don't feel lucky. Lastly, most of gamesworkshops IP are stolen ideas. Space bugs are far from original and were a stolen idea from the Alien franchise, their whole 'Imperium' theme is taken from ancient Rome, even down to the rank titles. They have space elves which they call eldar, necron which are basically T800s from the terminator franchise.. I can go on...

[450-262541]

It isn't me you need to try and justify it to, clearly it is the GW legal team that keep pulling you for Vero issues.

But I'm sad to see that you have that 'I'm entitled to make money off someone else's back because others are also doing it' attitude.

I think that unless you change that, you'll probably continue to have problems.

Good luck, I'm off home now. Have a good weekend

[ett1954]

"They do own this:" - that was cancelled in 2016

I was somewhat surprised that you could trademark the double-headed eagle as it has been used widely since the ancient Greeks, and throughout Europe as a heraldic symbol for centuries.  It is still used on the coat of arms of some countries; Russia being a prime example.

[quality-3d-prints]

Yeah please don't comment again in here I know what you're here for. Bye.