Ebay's new buyer protection scam

[wayne15071965]

So I have been a seller on and off her since June 2001, Over the years I have sent items recorded delivery that either never turn up , or arrive with no notification of delivery.  Now someone wants to charge a buyer a fee for safe delivery, when they would have been charged that in the P&P cost.  Frankly it sounds more like a scam than customer service and Ebay are also trying to force us to use their shipping option, So much for free enterprise, sound like trying to get the monopoly on delivery as well.  As for hanging on the sellers cash til 2 days after delivery, really so post office goes on strike and you don't get paid, Think I may start looking to leave. So much for eBay's loyalty to us .

[tom-sales-london]

The fee might be "paid" by the buyers but we are all still selling in one marketplace, we have to price competitively against business sellers.

[myriad*seller]

You could argue that buyers have always paid the fees. It is just presented in a different way.

After all, when the item sells, the seller uses the buyers money to pay the fees that eBay charge them.

In fact ALL the money the seller uses to pay their fees (and buy the items/posting bags/stamps/tea in the office) comes from buyers. 

Unless the seller never sells anything and just lists and pays listing fees to eBay for nothing.... 

[wilth3505_gtnhsdglsn]

But currently people buying from private sellers already have buyer protection...Ebay has refunded several sales I have made where the buyer said they did not receive it (things send by untracked second class post) and something that the buyer said was not as described.

? I think this fee will put buyers off as they aren't actually getting anything they didn't already have.

[myriad*seller]

This was not legal consumer protection, it was buyer protection over and above legal protection and was offered by eBay. 

Sounds like now buyers have to pay extra for the same protection 

I don't see any additional protection

[yellowfairdog]

Erm, no.

A private seller, like myself, sells things that they already have in their homes. Things that they have long since paid for. They don't use the buyer's money to pay for them. Nor do they pay for teabags etc. fuel and wear and tear on their tires (I've actually been charged for the fuel and tires before now)

The buyer pays, what they think is an acceptable sum for an item, plus, the actual cost of postage. 

Most of us reuse packaging we have accumulated over time, so don't charge for that either. If we have to buy something to send it in, we add another 10-15p for the cost of that.

Technically you could say you're using the buyer's money for fees, but that would be a pathetic and somewhat, pedantic argument and I don't believe you really want to go there, unless you're incredibly bored today and in which case I'd suggest you pick up a book to read instead. 

Private sellers don't pay listing fees, haven't for some years.  Unless they're trying to sell more than 100 items a month, at which point, some might say, they're probably not really personal sellers at all.

[myriad*seller]

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@yellowfairdog wrote:

Erm, no.

A private seller, like myself, sells things that they already have in their homes. Things that they have long since paid for. They don't use the buyer's money to pay for them. Nor do they pay for teabags etc. fuel and wear and tear on their tires (I've actually been charged for the fuel and tires before now)

The buyer pays, what they think is an acceptable sum for an item, plus, the actual cost of postage. 

Most of us reuse packaging we have accumulated over time, so don't charge for that either. If we have to buy something to send it in, we add another 10-15p for the cost of that.

Technically you could say you're using the buyer's money for fees, but that would be a pathetic and somewhat, pedantic argument and I don't believe you really want to go there, unless you're incredibly bored today and in which case I'd suggest you pick up a book to read instead. 

Private sellers don't pay listing fees, haven't for some years.  Unless they're trying to sell more than 100 items a month, at which point, some might say, they're probably not really personal sellers at all.

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I was talking about business sellers when I mentioned stock items, I was talking generally about buyers paying sellers fees. 

In the not too distant past, both business AND private sellers paid listing and final value fees, and those private sellers used the buyers money to pay the fees they were charged by eBay. Private sellers who use reserves and other billable listing enhancements STILL use the buyers money to pay the fees. 

Nobody is talking about private sellers paying listing fees, they did until very recently pay Final Value Fees, and Buyer protection fees are effectively Final Value Fees again.  

[infinibrix]

As a private seller you no longer pay any fees therefore you can now use that saving to lower your pricing to help make it more competitive so that the buyer fees are less impactful to the customer!?

The only thing ebay has done wrong here is not introduce this at the same time they introduced the 'no fees' policy. Had they of introduced both policies at the same time people would not be complaining? It seems people are only complaining because for a brief moment they were given everything! No fees, free selling but now its just back to how it was before but with more emphasis on buyers being responsible for the fees

[wilth3505_gtnhsdglsn]

Well I think it's bad because I think buyer's fees will put buyers off and I don't think ebay should be witholding funds - if they are serious about proving delivery before paying, the 14 days thing for non-tracked delivery is nonsense. It also doesn't help the buyer if the package is marked as delivered when it has been lobbed  up an alley or delivered to the wrong address  - the funds will be released but the buyer doesn't have their goods. I hope they are going to leave open the dispute resolution facility for these buyers and sellers.

[infinibrix]

Well since business sellers won’t have buyer fees it won’t put buyers off ebay in that respect and at the same time if a private seller has something rare, unusual or priced competitively then the buyer is still going to make the purchase regardless of any fee?
The only time the fee is going to be problematic to private sellers is if they’re trying to compete with business sellers? But isn’t that the point?

If you want to compete with business sellers then  you need to register as a business especially since from a buyer perspective its always going to make sense to buy from a registered business rather than a private seller anyway particularly where pricing is same/similar (This introduced buyer fee only emphasises that!)
The private seller market should be focused towards selling used, discontinued and hard to find items yet far too many private seller are selling new and current products on a regular occurrence without registering as a business?

[atomkit55]

I see a pattern here. I have been buying and selling on Ebay for over 20 years. When I started in 2004 Ebay was pretty much an online Car Boot/Garage Sale, now it appears they have designs on becoming the new Amazon. Gradually it has become less and less attractive as a place to have a good "clearout". They now want everyone to be a business. I am not a business, I'm a pensioner and use Ebay to follow my hobby. I use Royal Mail and don't use Evri or Yodel, I like my parcels to go where I send them and not end up crushed and delivered to a hedge in Cornwall. The new "Buyers" fees are just sellers fees renamed, buyers will adjust their max bid to match rather than pay extra. I have been selling items at a rate of 20 auctions a week and have 120 still to go. I have now rescheduled them to all finish before the end of January. I do not intend to wait 14 days for my money and leave it earning interest in their account. I am also going to stop buying. So, it looks like my Ebay days are over. Adios Amigos, my hobby was too expensive for a pensioner anyway.

[originsreborn]

What worries me most about all of this, is how can it be proven that a 2nd class item was delivered? To keep costs reasonable for the buyer, most of the items I have for sale include 2nd class postage with no tracking. How and when will I get paid with these new rules If I can't prove delivery???

..the whole this is exasperating and very unfair!

[poshboutique2]

It's a scam. Look at the price increase. 75p per transaction and 4% of the sale price. I would rather pay the seller's fee which was much less than be hit with this stealth raid on private sellers.

[pwyl4943]

Agree will close my account after 15 years - exploring the alternative sites 

[myriad*seller]

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@originsreborn wrote:

What worries me most about all of this, is how can it be proven that a 2nd class item was delivered? To keep costs reasonable for the buyer, most of the items I have for sale include 2nd class postage with no tracking. How and when will I get paid with these new rules If I can't prove delivery???

..the whole this is exasperating and very unfair!

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Second class items send as small, medium and large parcels come with free delivery confirmation included in the price

Check your receipt for the delivery confirmation number and enter it into the Royal mail tracking system 

eBay accept these as proof of delivery at present 

[originsreborn]

Thank you, that's something I didn't know.

[pwyl4943]

So do you work for ebay?.

Yes second class operate a confirmation number but you need to raise a case against the buyer and evidence by sending photos of postal receipt. Its a hassle that we don't need as people will receive the item and will not tick the box to say that they have it. Which means we are out of pocket and have the hassle of reporting the buyer. This then means we get negative feedback as return fire. 

[buffster1963]

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@pwyl4943 wrote:

So do you work for ebay?.

Yes second class operate a confirmation number but you need to raise a case against the buyer and evidence by sending photos of postal receipt. Its a hassle that we don't need as people will receive the item and will not tick the box to say that they have it. Which means we are out of pocket and have the hassle of reporting the buyer. This then means we get negative feedback as return fire. 

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If you add the number into the tracking on your sales page it shows as delivered once scanned on delivery. Obviously, if it gets lost then you have to refund the buyer. All a postal receipt does is prove you have posted it, not that it has been delivered, so make sure you add the number into the tracking.  

[myriad*seller]

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@pwyl4943 wrote:

So do you work for ebay?.

Yes second class operate a confirmation number but you need to raise a case against the buyer and evidence by sending photos of postal receipt. Its a hassle that we don't need as people will receive the item and will not tick the box to say that they have it. Which means we are out of pocket and have the hassle of reporting the buyer. This then means we get negative feedback as return fire. 

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No, you add the delivery confirmation number to the case when the buyer opens it and eBay closes the case in your favour as you have proved delivery! Not a hassle at all. It is the same as sending something tracked. You can even add the number when you post the item so the buyer can see you have proof of delivery!

[game_raid]

There is no box to tick as a buyer to say you have received an item as far as I'm aware, do you have any more information on this and I also didn't know you could raise a case against a buyer?

The 2nd class parcels have a delivery confirmation code so when the postie scans on delivery it shows as delivered which is accepted by eBay as proof of delivery, the code should be added on dispatch or once back from the post office.

[gee.force]

It’s so obviously targeted at ripping off the sellers, that I would be embarrassed if I were representing eBay.

is eBay suggesting buyers did not have any protection before this “measure” was launched? Or if they did, it wasn’t good enough?  Just ridiculous!