Ebay's new buyer protection scam

[wayne15071965]

So I have been a seller on and off her since June 2001, Over the years I have sent items recorded delivery that either never turn up , or arrive with no notification of delivery.  Now someone wants to charge a buyer a fee for safe delivery, when they would have been charged that in the P&P cost.  Frankly it sounds more like a scam than customer service and Ebay are also trying to force us to use their shipping option, So much for free enterprise, sound like trying to get the monopoly on delivery as well.  As for hanging on the sellers cash til 2 days after delivery, really so post office goes on strike and you don't get paid, Think I may start looking to leave. So much for eBay's loyalty to us .

[tom-sales-london]

Exactly, a lot of my items are very low prices, less than £10, selling spares, books and the like. It has become less and less worthwhile selling such items especially given how expensive large letter post has got in the last few years.

75p fixed fee is a total killer and worse than ever.

Refunds and buyer protection cases on such cheap items are almost non-existent, people can't be bothered to scam you out of such a cheap item and even if they are dissatisfied (and I'd be happy to refund if genuine) I bet most buyers just can't be bothered to go through a case/return anyway.

eBay's push towards tracking and potentially forcing "Simple Delivery" if this goes ahead, will kill this even further. If eBay forces postage at £3+ on a 100g packet that I can post for £1.55 then that kills it even more.

It would likely be better being on the business fees schedule for me now however that means actually needing to be a business which I am not...

[shaddow1000]

yes I did but it was pointless - it's all scripted and you come out of those chats feeling worse than when you went it because the platform you use just got worse but they're telling you it just got better

06:46:23 UTC Abhijeet

This fee allows us to provide round-the-clock customer support to buyers and sellers on ebay.co.uk, and helps to ensure a safe and secure transaction for all.

[dogrobinsnest]

Why on earth do people need round the clock help, buyers have not needed this for more than 20 years so why now ?? Are you expecting a large amount of claims if that is the case it’s very worrying. This is why my items if I ever managed to sell now will go signed for mail so my £1.00 postcard will now cost a buyer approximately £1.80 + over £3.00 postage crazy. I know I will not sell anything now but as a seller I feel I now feel I have to protect myself . Good job I don’t relay on EBay for my income.
Sent from my iPad

[2000appletree]

Buyers (include me) love price like £10 £20 £35 etc. for example if I see something cost £21.26 I just skip. Price must be clear otherwise people avoiding.After new buyer protection introduced ebay recorded huge drop and not many people interested to buy from.

[2000appletree]

Yes agree the new sellers joining but with Vinted I’m afraid. Vinted is typical platform designed for used items and very easy to sell there.

[willowbay1207]

I reduced my postage by half. I’ve sold quite well I suppose considering. Haven’t received a penny yet though since the 4th. Over £300. I suppose it’ll turn up 

[llew4126]

But the Buyer already has protection, so why are my Buyers being forced into paying for an unwanted Service Charge that they haven't asked for and don't need? Yet another non-thought through policy implemented by ebay which will increase THEIR REVENUE but which will have ANOTHER knock on effect on our sales revenue, as Buyers will vote with their feet to avoid this surcharge. And as a Buyer, I will certainly think twice now about buying anything via ebay if I can purchase it at the same (or lower) price elsewhere but without this 'Buyer Protection Fee' being forcibly charged. Just ridiculous ....

[andha-21]

If you are a business seller they already have statutory rights. For private sales things change.

But the kicker is this;

If a consumer can't buy from a private seller without paying for the BPF to eBay then the entire transaction is reliant on the business side. At that point it looks like it becomes a business sale, which automatically gives consumers statutory rights. At that point the BPF is making consumers pay for rights they already have and that takes it straight into legal territory, probably fraud/miss selling.

It's a really strange system. It invokes the very thing they are trying to charge for. Like a snake biting it's own tail.

[demonpv]

eBay have completely wiped me out with this stealth tax. For example, a product I used to sell (until this update) for £1.75 inc. free postage (my lowest priced product), would now cost the buyer over £5.

I personally refuse to sell anything on eBay now as it's absolutely ridiculous.

I've often been told by my customers that I charge too little considering the quality, but as I've told them, I will always aim to keep my prices as low as possible. The only time I would raise my prices is when postage costs would increase, so I'd raise it by the additional postage cost amount to cover my losses as my profit margin wasn't huge.

My dad used to sell a lot of oak signs on eBay, but now his sales have taken a huge hit as his prices have increased significantly. He cannot absorb eBays stealth tax as like myself, already had a low profit margin.

He is waiting on several hundred pounds to be paid into his account by eBay, but because he relies on the income from sales to buy the necessary materials, he fears he's also soon going to be pushed out of business. He's already lost a few customers who've asked for quotes because once a listing is made, eBays charge hikes up the price beyond what the buyer is willing to pay.

I truly hope people boycott eBay over this stealth tax. Money talks, and when they suddenly lose millions of profit from reduced sales, they may reconsider their decision.

So what does the buyer get from this additional charge? Practically nothing over the existing protection they already had that didn't cost either the buyer or seller a single penny. This, along with the fact that nowhere on any listing does it state that eBay have added this charge to the listing price, and it's not due to buyers being greedy etc, and this is why it is a stealth tax.

[carolhowton]

Totally agree!  Ebay trying to rake in more money from private sellers, and ebay not paying tax on this!   Im also thinking of leaving when theres other free advertising platforms online.

[ett1954]

"At that point the BPF is making consumers pay for rights they already have and that takes it straight into legal territory, probably fraud/miss selling." - Everyone is suddenly a legal expert; speak to a solicitor specialising in contract law; especially a no win / no fee solicitor they will be rubbing their hands. 🤔

A consumer has very limited rights when purchasing from a private seller.  That added protection is supplied by eBay through the MBG scheme which is financed by eBay.  eBay have obviously decided this will now be financed by the private seller.  This is no surprise as private sellers contribute little to eBay's income stream since 'free selling' was introduced which meant the scheme was being funded essentially by business sellers who gain no benefit from the MBG  as a buyer purchasing from a business is fully protected through the Consumer Rights Act - 2015.

If your analogy above was correct then this was also the case when everyone paid through PayPal.  PayPal were paid and they disbursed the fees appropriately.  Today under Managed Payments the fees go to Adyen who then disburse the fees.  Yes, eBay will gain financially; especially as Adyen typically have a lower commission rate then PayPal or Stripe.  eBay thus maximise their financial take through choosing Adyen over PayPal, who I recall most people at the time criticised and people now lament.  Every business has to make such choices - they wouldn't be 'financially responsible' otherwise.

The only difference with the Buyer Protection Fee will be when Simple Delivery is introduced.  Then the contractual dealings of the transaction will be between eBay and the delivery service.  eBay will then be responsible for dealing with any matters on the transaction that relate to the delivery service provider as the seller will have no say in that part of the transaction.  Presumably settlements for lost / damaged/ delayed refunds will be met by eBay and not the seller and the funds from the BPF will account for this.

It can be argued that sellers fees would have been a better way to do this, and I would agree; however, I don't recall any private sellers criticising the 'free selling' introduction at the time.  Come to think of it, I also don't recall any of the private seller's I have used or looked at to potentially purchase from dropping their prices accordingly when free selling was introduced either.

You may not think so, but I do have sympathies for genuine private sellers, especially those of low priced items.  In addition this could have been implemented and communicated much better; but then this is eBay, we should be used to this.  eBay are under a lot of pressure in the market place at the moment and they are obviously looking to optimise their income streams.  Amazon boasted a 10% increase in sales earlier this week on their quarterly financial report.  We will have to wait until the 26th to hear eBay's financial statement ,however, that increase from Amazon will be further depressing news for eBay's board as they search for increased revenue and I suspect their own statement will depress them further.

The question that should be asked is why didn't eBay pursue the business sellers operating as private sellers to maximise their fees in a way that would have been approved by all genuine private sellers and registered business sellers before determining whether any further fees were needed to be levied on the buyers or sellers.  The illegal sellers, and that is what they are, must be laughing all the way to bank yet they are in a large way responsible for these new fees.

[goodibags]

"If a consumer can't buy from a private seller without paying for the BPF to eBay then the entire transaction is reliant on the business side. At that point it looks like it becomes a business sale, which automatically gives consumers statutory rights. At that point the BPF is making consumers pay for rights they already have and that takes it straight into legal territory, probably fraud/miss selling"

This will become more blatant once Simple Delivery starts. If Ebay is 'Managing the delivery' (even if in practice side-stepping this by offloading all responsibility to seller and buyer) then how can they go on pretending that they are neither one nor the other?

Especially when they're explicitly charging VAT on their services? Most private sellers clearly aren't eligible for that.

[scratch_eddie]

You're absolutely right Wayne, it's got platform greed written all over it.  The 'buyer protection scam' fees have jacked up prices massively so it's pointless selling privately on eBay now, plus you have to wait ages to get paid as a seller.  This is purely so that eBay can bank the cash for an extra period and maximise their returns on interest (same with their ridiculous push to 'let' people pay with their 'balance' instead of with their real world money...eBay keeps hold of the money, gains the interest, literally no benefit to the end-user at all yet they portay it as a radical act of benevolence and genius!)

I've not seen their balance sheets, but I'd wager eBay could absolutely rake it in if they simply charged a penny for every transaction, no additional seller fees, no 'buyer protection' beyond the buyer reading the ads properly, studying the photos and taking the time to query anything that looks dubious or isn't fully described in the item description (that's just a good general life skill by the way, hardy scepticism and taking one's own responsibility for maximising a positive outcome). I've rarely had an issue with items I've bought on here, most sellers are straight up and honest, that's good business practice and good karma in and of itself,  so to introduce a magic fee to protect us all seems disingenuous to me.  

I've been a staunch supporter of this platform for decades, it's become my main shopping 'centre' and I've thought of it as a less obnoxious alternative to Amazon, even boycotting the latter in recent years on the basis of my distaste for Bezos's ostentatious displays of  wealth. I don't think eBay 'suck' as others have said on this thread--I've experienced great customer service, the interface and general site navigation has seemed logical and user-friendly,  and I got a thrill from hunting for bargains.  However, this cash-grab feels like a step in a very wrong direction that'll ruin it for buyers and sellers alike (and by extension the owners of the platform itself) and is just greedy, nothing more to it.  The whole scheme of doing away with seller fees was absolutely planned, and coldly calculated, as a means to suck people in via feigned benevolence, with a view to reintroducing fees in the future. Many of us were sufficiently savvy to see it coming a mile away, though it's still sad to see it happen.

But I guess they need the money...how else could they pay for much needed improvements like the little bouncing shopping basket animation that recently appeared when we put something in our cart? And how will they pay for the big board meetings to decide which buttons to move around on the interface ever three months in a forced update, so that a previously smooth, predictable, user-friendly experience can be made needlessly aggravating? Or pay for the adverts drumming in to us how wonderful it is that there are no seller fees, such community spirit, such philanthropic business magnates at the helm (note the lack of adverts telling us how wonderful and beneficial the new buyer fee is!)

I'm sad to say that I've returned to buying on Amazon now when I need something at the best possible price, as eBay simply isn't competitive with this additional fee.  On the upside, I'm buying more things in actual 'bricks and mortar' shops again, and my love of charity shops has never faded so I'm channeling all my bargain-hunter powers in that direction now, it's for a much better cause than propping up the tech barons 🙂

[1964pickup]

Who offered upto a 1000 free listing a mnth with promotions to prvate
sellers ? seems they were encouaging people to abuse the system to me .

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[scratch_eddie]

Yes, the young and the new don't realise how much worse the world is now than when we were their age or when we first joined 🙂

[lucy_farmer]

'Who offered upto a 1000 free listing a mnth with promotions to prvate
sellers ? seems they were encouaging people to abuse the system to me .'

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And who offered private sellers a 'shop' ? 'Out of stock' options? 'Multi-buy' options?

Ebay have to take a little responsibility for making it look so acceptable to trade on a private account.

[goodibags]

Absolutely agree. It's bonkers.

In hindsight it looks almost as if Ebay was deliberately encouraging businesses to build up a healthy customer base before starting to charge fees on their buyers? 😉

[royal22cat]

I totally agree with this. I sell mostly handmade items and just cover my outgoings, I don't do it to make money but of course if I make a couple of quid here and there that's great. Now my stuff looks expensive and with having to pay for tracking on everything that's another expense.

[*maetrix*]

I notice this morning they've sent me a "£15 off promoted listings" offer to help me sell my items faster...

Maybe they've noticed that I haven't sold anything for over 2 weeks...?...(their own fault).

[bronze333]

If they take mandatory control of the postage (they're charging the exact same as the post office) then currently there is no way to ask the postie to bring a pre-printed label on collection. Its not properly configured, yet, which means if you want a pre-printed label you have to use post office click and drop. Also if you want to split a large delivery into 2 parcels there is no way to do that on ebay postage.