Ebay's new buyer protection scam

[wayne15071965]

So I have been a seller on and off her since June 2001, Over the years I have sent items recorded delivery that either never turn up , or arrive with no notification of delivery.  Now someone wants to charge a buyer a fee for safe delivery, when they would have been charged that in the P&P cost.  Frankly it sounds more like a scam than customer service and Ebay are also trying to force us to use their shipping option, So much for free enterprise, sound like trying to get the monopoly on delivery as well.  As for hanging on the sellers cash til 2 days after delivery, really so post office goes on strike and you don't get paid, Think I may start looking to leave. So much for eBay's loyalty to us .

[leighbayuk]

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@papso22 wrote:

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@leighbayuk wrote:

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@andha-21 wrote:

Not sure exactly what you mean by claim but there has been at least 1 posted example here where eBay took the refund straight from a sellers funds, not from the escrow. 

So the seller sent the item and refunded it before getting paid ...

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So you are saying the buyer paid, the money was held in escrow, but the refund came from the sellers funds. What then happens to the money paid by the buyer held in escrow?

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It gets released to the seller.

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That’s a really strange way to do it. What is the point of the escrow? Other than eBay can earn some interest. 

[andha-21]

You answered that yourself 

[insidethe93]

Some sellers are absorbing the BPF, but confused and/or annoyed buyers still see two different prices if they click the link at check-out.

Some sellers are offering bundles to reduce BPF.

Some sellers are sending notes in with orders saying (paraphrasing) "due to increased eBay fees" they're moving to a different (named) platform and/or setting up their own website (giving the URL) and often giving a discount code to use. I'll be following certain of these sellers to their new locations = less spending on eBay.

Several of my favourite sellers have been 'on hold' for weeks, not selling, might leave eBay. Browsing is a scant pleasure now so my purchases are right down = less spending on eBay. Increasingly I refuse to pay BPF and now regularly shop elsewhere online. eBay, PLEASE scrap BPF and restore to private sellers control over price and shipping! I can't be the only buyer who feels like this = less spending on eBay.

BPF does my head in due to the constant maths required roughly predicting both a flat fee and a percentage. For some reason I find it easier to mentally add 50p than 75p as you have to carry numbers over to the next column; and 5% is faster & easier to calculate than 4% (just add half of 10%). I won an auction yesterday and I was annoyed to see a lower figure then be charged a higher figure i.e. BPF =  very bad psychology = less spending on eBay.

I can escape paying BPF when I buy from business sellers but I can't escape mention of it, as it says "incl. Buyer Protection" at check-out.

BPF hasn't encouraged me to buy more from business sellers, quite the opposite as I'm getting such an unpleasant buying experience on eBay that I shop less from business sellers, even though their goods don't attract BPF = less spending on eBay.

At least eBay is being even-handed 🙂 as they're annoying both buyers and sellers. Private and business sellers are also buyers.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

you have more faith in people than i do!  There would still have been the same ones on here complaining about it and saying how unfair life is!  Of course it would have been better for the more reasonable of us but you will never change human nature.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

have they ever had good communications though?  I know that when i first started i could not understand what they said and just struggled through until i finally found this forum and read some of the very useful threads.   Same with the other site i am thinking of going to when e bay introduces SD, i find it difficult to understand what i am supposed to do.  Managed to join it but the rest if flim flam that i need the energy to look at to understand.  What ever happened to the way sites used to explain things in easy steps?

[kath3735_wxmjn]

I must be of a different generation to so many on here, i have bought several items on the site since this began (summer is coming...) and i looked for what i wanted (not easy i know on here), found some items, checked out the general price, delivery courier, whether the buyer was a real or pseudo private seller and then bought.  I did not even flinch at what the BPF was, something i think a lot of buyers will be doing.   I have not messed around with my selling prices either, they will sell or not, just like over the years since i started!  The sales vary from week to week, sometimes nothing then a burst of about 4 in a week.  December was dead for me but Jan and Feb have been good.  However that will be due to my rushing my items on before SD comes in.  When that does, i will be gone unfortunately but i will not be spending hours on here fretting about it.

[lillys-rosered]

But the buyers don#t care who they are paying the fees to, or who gets what, all they care about is the overall price, and unless the seller reduces their price then there has been an overall increase to the buyer. Guess what? buyers dont like paying more and expect the seller to absorb the cost.

[goodibags]

I agree. Ebay has undeniably maximised all the possible annoyance.

[andha-21]

It has nothing to do with generation and everything to do with desire and available funds.

Yesterday a listing for my absolute favourite model finished. OOP, rare and they normally fetch between £60-£100 depending on how well they are painted/finished.

I have 3 of them already, all bought via eBay. The cheapest of which was £66.

The one yesterday sold on auction for £44 +post +BPF. 

The truth is I wanted it, but because I'm not selling I can't really afford to buy now either. It's the nature of my hobby. There are simply too many bloody models available to buy/keep them all. Unless I win the lottery of course.

But the kicker is this. That model pre Feb 4 would have sold for between £80-£100, possibly more. So eBay have actually managed to destroy one of the most stable markets out there.

I know I'm only giving one example here but I still follow all of my auction bookmarks through to the end and it's been happening since it started.

If you want another, Forgeworld Colossal Squid, OOP, very rare. A well painted one sold a few days back for around 50% it would normally have fetched.

[ett1954]

"To be fair though the MBG gives you a much easier way to use most consumer rights than if you had to go direct to the seller." - you are perfectly correct and as I mentioned in a previous post the one thing the MBG does offer when buying is a useful conduit through the process.

However, as you allude to, this offers only protection from genuine private sellers.  As we see often on these boards buyers, especially new or infrequent buyers, often open a case in the incorrect category.  For example a 'does not fit' or change of mind return.  Obviously if a genuine private seller has a 'no-returns' policy then that is a case of buyer beware, or maybe the buyer does not even open a case on the basis it is a 'no-returns' seller.  However how often do we see blatant selling by businesses operating on a private account with a no returns policy.

Under consumer regulations that buyer is perfectly within their rights to return the product within 12 months of receipt, but because eBay neither police or enforce their own policies in this area they will simply close the case in the illegal 'private' seller's favour.  Result a disillusioned buyer who may never return and may relate their experience to friends and family, or through social media.  Not good for eBay's reputation; ........  or maybe it just reinforces it.

Information on a customer's rights should be given equal prominence to the MBG on the site, not camouflaged behind a series of links.  But again; if eBay did police and enforce UK law most of this would never be necessary.

[insidethe93]

I wonder if it's the younger generation of buyers who don't flinch at BPF?

I don't know if I'm atypical but I know people whose children in their 20s still live with them, or moved back in one of them aged 34, and the parents pay for their purchases partly or wholly. A relative in her 20s moved to Britain on a 2-year visa, and her parents paid for her possessions to be shipped both ways. I drove a round trip of 300 miles including a hotel overnight stop, all at my expense, to fetch mainly her bicycle when the ship docked, to find it was a cheap normal bicycle that cost umpteen times its cost & value to ship and she, or rather her parents, could've bought a new one here. A friend has an adult nephew whose despairing parents end up paying for his purchases; the long-suffering uncle frequently replaces damaged items especially smartphones as the nephew doesn't look after them, indeed it's suspected he damages smartphones deliberately after a couple of years to be bought the next model; he's buys on eBay and doesn't flinch at BPF or at any price at all; he's not the only one, I have other personal examples.

As regards not changing your prices, I wish a lot of private sellers would also not change their prices and certainly not withdraw items they THINK won't sell due to BPF. I'd still buy as I can afford BPF, though in small amounts. In the area of decluttering secondhand items you can't really predict when the right buyer comes along. Quite often I know about an item but don't buy it until I need/want it, sometimes after a year or two. And with (hopefully!) new buyers joining eBay all the time, the right buyer could be amongst them.

[1geedee]

The biggest issue i have as a private seller with this latest  Ebay "Financial shuffle" is when i now list something at an attractive starting price, lets say £100, they now turn my price into an unattractive cost of £104.78. They also make the buy it now price cost look pretty weird too resulting in my listings are now sending potential buyers away puzzled at such a stupid price. The cost has a huge influence on a potential sale and now this has been ruined.

We were all excited at this advertising slogans stating "Its now free to sell" and yes it is but i think the small print should've stated "Ebay will now manipulate your listings to seem less attractive to potential buyers so you might not sell as quickly as before, if at all".

'Buyers Protection fee' is just another avenue to gain bigger revenues than the previous set up. FACT!

[andha-21]

If a buyer sends you an offer and you accept it you'll find out it isn't free to sell. In that scenario the seller swallows the BPF fees.

On the other side, if you send an offer, the buyer pays more as the BPF is added in to it.

[anne.craig]

eBay have completely messed up all the prices due to them aiming to hide their fee inside the total cost at the initial stages of the buying process.  

I do sell on Vinted (which I only started when Managed Payments came in!) and it works very differently there - the end result is the same for everyone, but the fees are obviously a separate amount shown to the buyer up front and never involved with the seller's numbers.  On their site, you list something for £10 and it shows to the potential customer as £10, then below that it shows the full charge and states "including buyer protection".  This pulls through to the offers system on there, where everyone knows that the offer made or accepted is on the item price only and that the fees will be added.  Do it like that and suddenly everyone's prices are £10 dead, offers of £5 mean seller will receive £5, counter offers of £7 will show to the buyer as £7 plus fees and mean the seller will receive £7.  That is a major difference between the two sites, all because Vinted are upfront about their cut and eBay are attempting to conceal theirs.  It's not a good look IMO.

[martinwh1]

eBay have just copied Vinted ignoring the fact that Vinted doesn't offer the free MBG. I did have a look at Vinted's fee structure and the big difference is that their fixed fee varies from 30p to 80p and value percentage is 3% to 8%. It's not very clear how it operates but 30p/3% might actually make my items saleable again! 

[madeat136]

Ebay have tried to copy Vinted and have failed ..I have never sold anything on vinted but have purchased ..If you are buying individual items on vinted the cost is around 70p per Item for BP ..But if you buy several items this is greatly reduced . For example I bought 9 items on Vinted for £25 I paid £1.95 BP If i purchased 9 items from the same seller on ebay the BP would be in excess of £9 ??You get tracking numbers as soon as the seller sends it, and once recieved you either accept it or reject it .Once accepted the seller gets their money Sent from my Galaxy

[kath3735_wxmjn]

buyers with any sense are only maily interested in one thing - the overall price!  I want an item and it is quoted as £10 am i really going to be bothered whether that is £8 for the buyer and £2 for e bay- of course not!  As for increase in price, have you been in to any shops lately???   One of the items i often buy has gone up another 5p today, i have a choice buy it, go elsewhere to see if it cheaper, buy a cheaper brand or just go without it completely.  That choice is the buyers.  If you do not like the price of something i am selling then do not buy it.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

this is a story so often heard these days and at the end of the day (as they say) it is down to the parents who let the children get away with it.  I have two great nephews and they were brought up with plenty of material possessions but always knew that there was a finite limit to what they could have and what they had to pay for themselves.  Both worked in the holidays and have continued working ever since.   Not so sure about the following generation though who seem to be spoiled to excess and it shows.   I digress though.  Part of the reason i do not change my price is because i am selling family stuff and i have free reign as to pricing etc (they get the money though) and none of us are desperate for it, it eventually pays for treats or goes into my young relatives savings account. (as i said, better off than us!).  I put on the price i would like, eventually reduce to the least i would take or it goes to the car boot in desperation!  Cannot be bothered faffing around when they keep changing things.  Same when the 80% promotion was on, my items stayed on all the time whether it was promotion or not.

[ile136yz]

Buyers are not interested in eBay items & are shopping elsewhere at the moment.

If they have a fiver to spend, then they want the full value to go on the item & a reasonable postage charge, not Buyers fees.

[martinwh1]

Unless of course the item they want is only available on eBay which is often the case with private sellers disposing of whatever they collected and that applies to lower priced items like stamps, postcards, trading cards etc where eBay is the only place the buyers 

can browse though an extensive range of what they collect presented in an easily searchable way. Only time will tell if buyers accept that the sellers cannot reduce their prices to accommodate BPF and that dealers are charging more anyway even if they have a similar item or if eBay has succeeded in getting rid of those sellers. Personally, I'll leaving my listings in place and see what happens, after all it costs me nothing and, as they automatically renew, I don't even need to waste time looking at them.