Ebay removed Vinyl record listing. Counterfeit item policy does not apply to all.

[frotnrs]

I had listed a Pink Floyd live in 1977 album from my collection for sale. A few hours later I received an email form Ebay which said 

"We had to remove one or more of your listings for not following our Counterfeit item policy."

Fair enough and I'm quite happy to abide by the policy but I do wonder why it only seems to apply to private sellers like myself and not large businesses like MusicMagpie, Rough Trade, Chalkys, IHaveIt, and numerous others. There are some sellers on Ebay who advertise nothing else by 'Collectors' Vinyl and CD' and have done so for years. What I would like to know is why Ebay does not apply its Counterfeit item policy equally and fairly to all sellers. If  I am not allowed to sell something I bought from a legitimate retailer (Juno in this case) then why are large businesses allowed to advertise and sell this sort of item without fear of this policy being applied to them?

Any thoughts?

[davidninetynine]

The answer is simple.

You are a small-time private seller and ebay don't make much money from you. 

On the other hand, the big business sellers pay large amounts in commissions and fees, thereby contributing significantly to their profits and fatcat remuneration. Ebay does not want to upset them.

[frotnrs]

Of course but it would be good if ‘following our counterfeit item policy’ applied to everyone. Surely a policy is meant to be enforced across the board regardless. But you’re quite right, it only seems to apply to ordinary people, not big corporations. A bit like the law in certain countries. Thanks for your reply.

[selective_distribution]

Completely agree with you. I have tried listing various `LIVE` albums, and have received the  `Counterfeit Item` message. I will not risk it again as I don`t want any restrictions on my account. I have pointed out to ebay that there are literally THOUSANDS of `Bootleg` albums listed for sale on the site, but they don`t seem to be very bothered. I think that if you get the `counterfeit` warning, it could be because a competitor is reporting your listing? To add insult to injury though, in this months `Record Collector` magazine there is an article about the biggest selling items online, and the main item is a Pink Floyd BOOTLEG album, live from Hamburg 1971, which sold for a staggering £ 3,728! But the most astonishing thing to me is that the article actually say`s that eBay supplied this information!........Really eBay. you are giving warnings for listing `Bootlegs`, and then bragging about it when someone gets a large sum for selling one on your platform!

[a45heaven]

Check out Discogs for the album in question  - they are more reliable to have the correct knowledge on Bootlegs etc, where ebay have a financial bias and react to 'copyright' threats without investigating the accusations.

[wycombe1]

Some bright spark with nothing better to do with their time is reporting you - usually a competitor. I get the same with some of my banknote listings and when you challenge you get a stock reply rejecting your appeal. Now I just cancel the listing on eBay and list it elsewhere. Life is too short to waste it arguing with a bot.

[frotnrs]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. I've been collecting records for over 50 years and whilst Discogs is a help it can be far from accurate, it may say an item from a company is unofficial and then allow it to be sold. Best approach with caution.

The email I got from eBay said This came to our attention because of a user report so there may be some truth in what selective_distribution and wycombe1 have said although I can't see why anyone would regard me as a competitor or want to have a go at me. I'm not a business or dealer, just a private seller and I only sell albums that are from my own collection that are duplicates or no loner wanted. I can't see how that can have upset anyone.

Given what selective_distribution has said about the article in Record Collector it seems pretty evident that this 'Counterfeit item policy' is only there for show and that it doesn't actually apply to sellers unless someone decides to 'report' them. Must say it certainly looks like the policy is of no concern to large retailers or even certain private sellers who advertise nothing but bootleg albums.

eBay certainly can't be bothered to enforce their own rules. After sending me the email about my listing, they must have forgotten about their counterfeit policy and that Counterfeit products are illegal and not allowed on eBay as  I got a couple of emails to remind me that a couple of bootleg albums I had looked at (not watched) were still available at a reduced price and that others of the same ilk were to be had on their site. 

I have appealed against their ruling and pointed out that 'live' albums are for sale in vast numbers but I expect to get back their bot generated dismissal early next week.

Maybe a letter to Record Collector pointing out their hypocrisy wouldn't be a bad thing... but then again it probably would be a wasted effort. 

[vinylscot]

You are looking at this slightly skewed. It is right that your listing was removed. Under the rules, bootlegs should not be sold on eBay. eBay will not change their mind.

Your actual issue, which I think almost everyone agrees with, is eBay's inconsistency, and why other copies are available for sale. eBay does not have a specialist team dealing with matters like this. They do tend to act only when a complaint has been made.

The obvious question following on from that is "why do they not remove all other listings of the same product?". The reason I have been given in the past by eBay customer services in Ireland (usually quite reliable), is that, as they are not experts, they won't know if other listings are offering exactly the same item, and so they rely on member reports.

That is undoubtedly a cop out, but there are grey areas, and non-experts would be likely to make mistakes. For example, if you look through all the coloured vinyl variants of The Beatles' "Abbey Road", you will find that some are legitimate, and far more are not. Therefore, they only deal with reports, and they tend to go along with whatever discogs says.

...and don't get me started with discogs' inconsistency, and their lack of clarity over what constitutes an "official" release.

[frotnrs]

Thanks for your reply Vinylscot but as I said in my original post I am quite happy to abide by their policy but that their lack of consistency in applying is what I find annoying. The excuse that they do not have experts and rely on 'reports' is an especially feeble response, especially for a concern as large as Ebay which we are led to believe is an auction site. Why it is unable to operate in the same way as other established auction houses who employ specialists in any given area is rather disconcerting. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to recruit a couple of people who have more than a rudimentary knowledge of all things vinyl and cd and what constitutes a bootleg / pirate / counterfeit. If their definitions were clear then there wouldn't be items like dubious copies of Abbey Road for sale on their site, not to mention that perennial favourite 'The Beatles in Mono CD Box' (of which there is currently at least one on offer). 

To rely on people who seem to have nothing better to do than report private sellers, or have a grudge against others for what ever reason for listing some of their collection, does not seem like a professional way for eBay to run their affairs.

If they have a policy that bootlegs / counterfiet vinyl should not be sold, then that should apply to all and it should be enforced equally across the board regardless of who is selling. Applying it on an ad hoc basis would seem to imply that the policy is only there as window dressing.

and I won't start a discussion about Discogs inconsistency otherwise this could never end. 

[vinylscot]

In principle, I agree with you, but if eBay had to employ a couple of people who were "experts" in vinyl records, they would need to do so for dozens of other products, at significant cost, which would no doubt be borne by us in some form of higher fees.

eBay is not an auction house in the generally accepted sense. You would buy from an auction house, so they have different levels of liability - you don't buy from eBay. eBay describes itself as "a global online marketplace that facilitates the sale of goods and services", and has long relied on the "mere conduit" excuse to separate itself from the sellers.

It's like speeding drivers - the vast majority never get caught, but those who do get caught are still in the wrong.