Ebay is dying

[ezzie58]

We have noticed that our Ebay is dropping off a cliff.  We feel that the Buyer Protection, Simple delivery etc is killing it.  For sellers with 100% feedback we think that buyer protection should be optional for the buyer.

Simple Delivery has confused combining postage for sellers as we dont know what ebay have done.

We are now starting to look for another platform.  With the high street closing its doors we dont think Ebay is invincible.

[jonatjonatjonat]

From time to time I may have access to items that I am able to purchase at a lower price than retail, that I am able to resell for a small profit. Why wouldn't I take that opportunity if it arises? It doesn't make me a business.

From ebays business seller page...

"If you want to sell large quantities, if you have items that you've made or bought to resell or if you already have a business outside of eBay, you’ll need to register a business account."

So what is it about your way of buying items to resell that doesn't fit that description?

[govee-customs]

I'm not selling large quantities am I?

[govee-customs]

I'm breaking the law? 

WoW, you business sellers really do seem to be a bitter bunch.

You buy something at a price agreed with the person you're buying it from, decide to resell it because you don't want it and all of a sudden you're a business seller that's breaking the law. That's quite the escalation!

[jonatjonatjonat]

Commas are important for many reasons.

[cobwebcottage]

Have a read of this especially this bit:

'If you do not follow the rules you could be made to provide the goods or services as agreed, pay compensation or be given an unlimited fine or a prison sentence.'

https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses

[govee-customs]

 So sorry for not wasting too much time checking my posts.

[govee-customs]

I'm not a business though, am I ...I also do not have all day to sit here and argue the toss with you. 

[jonatjonatjonat]

What do your posts have to do with it?

[cobwebcottage]

By choosing to trade, you are a business seller. Like it or not. Second income, side hustle, sideline, it doesn't matter what you call it.

'A business seller is a person or entity that sells goods or services regularly, with the intent to generate profit, and often operates at a commercial scale. They differ from private sellers by trading consistently, manufacturing goods to sell, or purchasing items specifically to resell, often requiring registration for tax and consumer protection laws.'

I'm not surprised that you don't have time to respond as you have a full time job as well as an online business.

[govee-customs]

Online business ... By that definition you have provided, over 90% of eBay sellers would probably be considered a business. However, as with most "private" sellers, I do NOT operate on a commercial scale, I do not manufacture anything to sell, I do not trade consistently (I'm surprised anybody does on eBay these days) and I don't purchase items specifically to sell/trade on eBay either.

I usually purchase items based on the price the person I am buying them from wants for them and then decide if I want to keep them... Almost all of the items I purchase are from closed or closing down businesses and I generally keep/use most of the items for myself, as the items I buy always contain items that I want, however, from time to time, different scenarios arise, as with most things in life.

As you specifically picked out my cabinets in your original response, I'll tell you exactly what happened with those ..(not that it's any of your business). The guy I bought them from refused to sell me just the 3 I required for a job I wanted them for. I ended up purchasing all of them with a view to using them on further jobs. They sat in my shed for 2 months and were taking up space, so I decided to sell them on. Will I make a small profit on them, maybe I will, maybe I won't, maybe I will just try to get my money back on the excess ones I had to buy... why wouldn't I try to achieve that? I certainly don't want to lose money on them, but does that make me a business and a non law abiding citizen? No, hence my reasoning (which again I'm at least adding an explanation for).

As mentioned above, I generally buy items from closed down, or closing down businesses and unfortunately is the case, they don't want me cherry picking what I want, a prime example being the above mentioned cabinets. Another prime example would be a turbo I required to repair my car... I had 2 options...go buy a brand new one at a cost of £1,695 from Halfords, or buy one from a parts seller that was closing down, for £250 that also came with about 60 other car parts that were of no use to me whatsoever... What would you do in that situation? What am I supposed to do with the remaining parts? I chose to do what anyone with any modicum of common sense would do and try to sell them at a greatly reduced price to someone else that could use them and save themselves money on. Will I profit from those sales? Again, maybe, maybe not...but does that make me a business? Not in my opinion.

I have some garden furniture for sale, same thing... I wanted most of it for myself, but not all of it. What am I supposed to do with the leftovers? Offer someone else the opportunity to save a small fortune like I did, or merely discard it? 

There is almost always more to a story than meets the eye my friend and I have wasted far too much time and effort explaining my side to you, but your bitterness towards "private" sellers for whatever reasons you may have, seem to have simply blinded you to the fact that I must be a business seller, because your b.s definitions tell you so and I do not even meet those definitions, so again, I bid you a good day and to wherever you see fit, but at this point I'm tired of explaining to you.

[jonatjonatjonat]

Online business ... By that definition you have provided, over 90% of eBay sellers would probably be considered a business

They wouldn't - and to be fair - from your new explanation - neither would you.

[kh-sireesha]

Hi everyone,

We appreciate your participation in this discussion. However, the conversation has become a bit too heated. We'd like to remind all members to keep things respectful and courteous towards each other. Differing opinions are always welcome here and make for great discussion, but let's ensure we keep it constructive.

Thank you for your understanding and for helping us keep the forums productive.

— eBay Community Team

[pegr-834437]

Any chance you can just highlight what a business seller is in the law and for eBay, if somebody is just buying a handful of items at a discounted rate and then reselling are they deemed a business by eBay as they certainly are in UK consumer law in my understanding. 

This is the same argument that we see on the forum every week, posters saying I'm not a business I only have x amount of items that I have bought to resell, nobody from eBay ever seems to give an answer so its a repeating argument whereas if somebody from eBay just came out and said yes if you are buying to resell you're a business then the argument is put to bed, the same as if eBay said hey if you are only selling 5 items you've bought to resell we dont see you as a business.

[pegr-834437]

Yes sorry i meant ebay switching to the buyer.

Agree on all the changes, and that most rule breakers are businesses operating on private accounts, thats why I try not to pitch it private v businesses, its rule breakers v legit sellers. The increases eBay have done is to try and keep up with the market but sadly they've forgot about all the other things and just increased selling limits. 

We did hear a lot of sellers complaining they weren't getting promos though, the February club if I remember the name they gave themselves had a huge thread full of complaints that they werent getting anything. Again though the increases have all come in my opinion because eBay have been scared of Vinted and the likes, instead of pushing why they are much better (protection wise) they've tried to fight them by getting as bad as them. 

[admiral-bayntun]

Agree, 100% the introduction of the Buyer Protection fee and the Simple Delivery are equally to blame for the drop off in sales.  It has generally meant higher and inflated costs for customers.  Many sellers and buyers have voted with their feet.  Such a shame

[theelench]

Can you blame them when, at least a year after ebay dumped them onto buyers and private sellers, there are still at least 5 threads on this board's first page where buyers or sellers are either confused by, or unhappy with SD or its results in their transactions.

[dmcs-filters]

If you are buying things to sell them on in the eyes of the law you are trading, so yes you do have a business.  If that business makes more than £1000 a year profit you need to do a tax return. 

[insidethe93]

Whenever culprits are advised in the discussion boards that they're really traders who should be on a business account, they tend to react with surprise, confusion or defiance. Some are probably genuinely learning it for the first time. Others knew full well beforehand. They all tend to use the same excuses.

In "badges of trade bingo" every time a seller uses a time-worn excuse, shout "bingo!" and down a drinks shot.

Each excuse implies "so it must be all right":

"I'm just a hobbyist seller" bingo!

"I'm not selling large quantities" bingo!

"It's not on a commercial scale" bingo!

"I only make a loss" - bingo!

"I sell rarely" bingo!

"I don't market professionally" - bingo!

"everyone's doing it" - bingo!

"I've been doing it for years" - bingo!

There's a recently started thread here on what can happen when HMRC catches up

after years: "Re: 23 years on eBay. 5 suspensions. Home at risk. Has anyone else

experienced these deliberate trap".

Re the above, in case someone hasn't heard about the "badges of trade", including perhaps some business sellers illegally trading on private seller accounts, the seven "badges of trade" are tests developed over time by British courts to decide if selling counts as trading (a business) rather than a one-off private sale; there's no single statutory list; no single badge is decisive:

- Profit motive: selling to make money
- Number of transactions: repeat sales
- Nature of item: items usually sold commercially
- Work on item: repairing and/or refurbishing before sale
- Manner of sale: businesslike marketing
- Source of goods: bought to re-sell
- Time held: short time between purchase and sale

Courts decide whether activity is trading using these badges. HMRC applies that test

for tax/VAT and may act on seller receipts reports supplied by platforms - platforms,

subject to £thresholds/dates etc, must by law report the statistics to HMRC. It's a

civil matter so the burden of proof is 'balance of probability' (not the higher

standard 'beyond reasonable doubt').

[sml192]

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@dmcs-filters wrote:

If you are buying things to sell them on in the eyes of the law you are trading, so yes you do have a business.  If that business makes more than £1000 a year profit you need to do a tax return. 

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£1,000 turnover, not profit.

[sml192]

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@admiral-bayntun wrote:

Agree, 100% the introduction of the Buyer Protection fee and the Simple Delivery are equally to blame for the drop off in sales.  It has generally meant higher and inflated costs for customers.  Many sellers and buyers have voted with their feet.  Such a shame

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Thr Buyer Protection Fee is less than the old seller fees and the prices for Simple Drlivery are cheaper than going direct to the carriers (except for Letter/Large Letter items where Royal Mail Standard Tariff can be used instead of the tracked services used by Simple Delivery).