EBay asking for national insurance number

[raik1performance]

Hi everyone, I recently joined for like 1 month and I start selling as a private seller , and now eBay is asking me to provide national insurance number.

"New UK digital sales reporting legislation requires sellers with 30 or more sales, or who have sales exceeding £1740 in a calendar year, to register this information"

[lucy_farmer]

'For once (and i hate saying this) e bay have done nothing wrong and are trying to comply with the regs.'

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I'm with you on this: I would assume ebay don't want the hassle of doing it  any more than we do!  I think if ebay could ignore this regulation, they would..... 

(They don't have the best record on strictly following regulations in their 'hosting' countries if they don't absolutely have to. ....  getting 'private' business sellers to comply with UK consumer law for example!)

[*maetrix*]

Oh I love to have a moan...unfortunately ebay are giving a lot of us a helluva lot to moan about these days.

[jckl1957]

Nobody has to use Ebay.

If moaning about Ebay is stopping you from doing important, useful, pleasant things, then walk away.

[theelench]

As I wrote earlier, ebay does not have to leave asking for NINOs until one of the thresholds is breached.  Ask yourself why is ebay putting itself in the position of risking a fine by leaving their request for a seller's NINO until they have to report on their selling activity ?

I don't believe that HMRC require ebay to maximise the number of sellers they must report on.  So why doesn't ebay make it clear to sellers that if item no. 31 sells they will have to report to HMRC and ask for the NINO before the event ?

As it's now free to sell for private sellers, ebay will suffer no loss by doing so and if the seller is a business they should have no qualms about doing so ?  I ask again, is collecting NINOs about catching those possibly guilty or about collecting data un-necessarily or holding funds for lengthy periods of time.

If a warning on the listing form prevents tax evasion or any of the other crimes on ebay, surely that is a good thing ?  If it can be done without holding funds (mostly belonging to the innocent and unwary) surely that is even better ?

Yes I am entitled to my views and I've taken precautions to ensure that I don't have any funds held by ebay.  I'm also entitled to question why ebay doesn't make it easier for everyone who doesn't want to part with their NINO to do the same.

[jckl1957]

The main issue with your opening point, as I see it, is that Ebay don't need to ask for NINOs until one of those thresholds is breached.

So, what yardstick should they use to measure whether or not they need that information?

If a seller sold one item for £1000 or so, or 23 items for £3 or £4, well away from either threshold, they might well resent being asked for that information.

Should they ask for your NINO along with your bank account details etc. as soon as you list an item for sale?

The 30 item limit came in on January 1st 2024 and was very widely publicised so anybody who is surprised when they hit this limit and is asked for their NINO must have been living under a rock.  I don't believe it is part of Ebay's remit to tell sellers that they have nearly sold 30 items and, if they sell more, Ebay will request their NINO.  I do believe in personal responsibility - much out of fashion these days.

[jonatjonatjonat]

While that's true as a platform they could hand hold and be more up front, they also have no requirement to do so. ebay provide the due diligence they need to in the form of a help page and its on those users of the platform to understand their obligations before they jump in and sell. Of course, people don't always read the terms and conditions...

I suppose if ebay withhold funds at the 30 orders/£1,700 point - then technically the seller remains under the HMRC threshold

From what I can tell, no other platform does anything like what you are suggesting (so would all be doing the same - whether they withhold payouts I can't tell) and just have a help page as below.

Vinted UK Digital Sales Reporting
Etsy UK Digital Sales Reporting

[vinylscot]

Going by the amount of resistance to eBay asking for NINOs when one of the thresholds is reached, how much more do you think there would be if they requested the info before then?

Those who object would then have a point, to a certain extent, as eBay would be collecting information it does not need.

[theelench]

Because I like to remind those who might be reading the boards that there are some private sellers who post regularly.  It might encourage a few more private sellers to do the same.

As for the other place, might I suggest that you try the following.

Look at your ratio of Auctions to RUS listings, look at Recently Sold items on the HP and the ratio there.

Try re-arranging the wording of some of your titles - key words and their position are king.

Use what's available.  I've yet to see you on the PYA threads which are free ads. and get your name and products known to board users.

All your RUS listings were listed in April.  I doubt if google shopping has even indexed them yet so you are probably not even showing-up there, doing so helps.

On a much smaller site how many sales were you expecting ?  Are those expectations realistic with the competition you have ?  How have you adapted your way of selling in response to how the competition does it ? 

[leadhills_scot]

Never used google shopping don't see the point of it. If you have looked at my listings you will have seen my feedback which is all from sales/buys over there. Now it seems to be more for collectable items and quieter than it was 18 years ago when I first joined.

[zed1015]

A few general comments/points/suggestions which may or may not be of interest to anyone. 

1 - My account is on hold because i had already exceeded 30 items when the threshhold rules came in and they never asked for my NINO prior to the putting a hold on my payouts.. ( the block and NINO request came simultaneously ).

2 - Luckily i'd had no funds in my balance when they froze the payouts with no warning so i couldn't really give a toss.

3 - Registering my NINO isn't a concern and i would have happily supplied it but i am not going give it SOLELY due to the forced use of Simple delivery ( with no other choice ) which does not cater for my shipping requirements so i will no longer be selling here unless they do U turn which looks highly unlikely.

4 - I will now avoid buying through ebay except as a last resort and any sellers i use, either business or private, will get my custom through their off ebay websites or other avenues if possible..

5 - When reaching/exceeding the 30 sales or £1740 limit they should have simply put a hold on the sales of remaining listed items and listing new items ( for the remaining tax year or until you registered your NINO which ever came first ) and left access to remaining funds open in the Ebay balance instead of the opposite which is an aggressive move that only intimidates. 

6 - Regardless of NINO, BPF,  DELAYED PAYMENTS and all the other "Improvements" that have been dropped like a bomb in quick succession which individually can be tolerated /worked around or compensated for it is the forced imposition of SD with no options which is the real villain in all of this and isn't necessary .

7 - The forced use of SD with no options brings the conclusion that all Ebay is interested in is profits at any cost and is maybe a money grab in preparation for selling off , liquidating or other reasons that are not apparent at this time. ..

[lucy_farmer]

'So why doesn't ebay make it clear to sellers that if item no. 31 sells they will have to report to HMRC and ask for the NINO before the event ?'

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In one type of eventuallity, I don't think ebay *can* ask beforehand, as ebay is classed as an 'auction site' (? I think)

It's 30 items *or* £1750.00 (ish).

If item number 29 (or even item no. 3!) is an auction item, nobody knows if it's going to take the seller over the £ limit, even if they're not over the item number limit. So how would anybody know where to draw the line *before* the event?

(getting brain-ache again here...😖)

[vinylscot]

I'm quite sure the vast majority of business sellers who post on these boards are also private sellers, like myself. We do understand the problems.

Look at posters' feedback totals - they are reasonably low, as business accounts go. These regular posters have got time on their hands to post, whether they post on business or private accounts. Those purely in it for the business are less likely to have the time or inclination to post here. They've got "fully-fledged" (as Eve Williams called them) businesses to run.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

You would be the first to complain if e bay asked for your NINO and you had only sold 3 items!   As i said previously it has been clear to anyone who actually bothers to read and keep up with what they are doing that your NINO will be required when you reach the due figures.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

the threshold rules came in in Jan 24 but for various reasons did not affect us (the sellers) until this year so your first comment is inaccurate.   When i received the request for my NINO i did not have a block put on any part of my account, all they did was say it could happen if i did not comply.  As i am not stupid and read as much about what is happening in the future i was prepared for it and sent it off immediately.   I too, will be leaving E Bay due to SD when it finally becomes mandatory.

[moonlight-rhapsody]

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in response to moonlight-rhapsody

@kath3735_wxmjn wrote:

"maybe people should keep up to date then and read up on new information and T & Cs!   This has been ongoing now for over a year and there has been info about it both in the media and on this site so it should have come as no 'shock' to the majority. "

The thing is, I’ve looked back at the last 12 months emails from ebay and there’s been no mention of NINO in any of the ones I’ve received.  The emails usually pick out the main changes to previous T&Cs, so I would have thought this would have been mentioned in the email.  If it’s been mentioned in amongst the 000,000s of words in ebay’s T&Cs, User Agreements, Privacy Notices or Payment Terms, sorry but I’ve missed it.  

Ebay also send out emails entitled “Important Changes” and I haven’t had one of those about NINO either.  They could have sent one of those out but they didn’t.  

It’s not exactly earth-shattering news to have been given extensive coverage in the media over the last year, so nope, sorry, not seen it there either.   

One of the reasons I hang around these forums is that I get more info here than from the “official” ebay channels.  But I only came to look round here when I got the email from ebay on 31 March about Simple Delivery.  

"For once (and i hate saying this) e bay have done nothing wrong and are trying to comply with the regs.”

With you on that one, although I do think they could have handled it better 🙂

[theelench]

ebay can send me emails on a daily basis.  The listing form is dotted with "suggestions" and "recommendations".   If ebay wanted to, it would soon find a way suggest that I "read this link" about reporting to HMRC.

What is ebay doing collecting as many NINOs and Holding as much cash as possible or fulfilling its obligations under the regulations.  It can do the second without resorting to the first, IF it wants to.

[theelench]

The new reporting rules were announced some time last year, a year when I only sold 4 items all year and yes I did complain.  Not because of my poor sales but because I still have an active UTI with HMRC which I cannot use instead of my NINO.

As you can see clearly from my previous posts I'm not suggesting ebay sends emails when a seller sells 3 items.  I'm suggesting that ebay is capable of warning sellers that they will have to give their NINO to ebay when they reach 31 sales as they approach that threshold.  NOT wait until it is breached and then Hold the proceeds.  Or ebay can add the warning to the listing form, just as they like to remind sellers that they can  add BO to their listings or suggest that the seller Sponsor their listings.

[theelench]

"With you on that one,....."

I agree, ebay could have handled it better.  But that didn't suit their bottom line.  So they wait until the line is crossed then hold sellers money.

[zed1015]

Maybe i should have said when the requirement was implemented in April this year but that's not the point.

I ain't stupid either and was already fully aware the NINO requirement was coming ( which i was only going to supply when pushed anyway and because of SD i'm now glad i didn't )  but i personally had no prior messages requesting mine until the day the message "Add your tax information to your account to continue to receive payouts." appeared in the red banner at the top of my selling overview page and my ebay balance page simultaneously along with the blocking of payouts .

As is typical of ebay and their inconsistent implementation of changes throughout the system my experience is different to yours .

[4_bathrooms]

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@theelench wrote:

As you can see clearly from my previous posts I'm not suggesting ebay sends emails when a seller sells 3 items.  I'm suggesting that ebay is capable of warning sellers that they will have to give their NINO to ebay when they reach 31 sales as they approach that threshold.  NOT wait until it is breached and then Hold the proceeds.  Or ebay can add the warning to the listing form, just as they like to remind sellers that they can  add BO to their listings or suggest that the seller Sponsor their listings.

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A potential spanner in the works for your proposal is the thresholds are proportionally reduced if the user is only registered with the platform for part of the "reportable period" (a calendar year). Apparently, the thresholds for a seller who registers on 1st December are (30 * 0.082) = 3 items or (£1,680 * 0.082) = £137.76. However, eBay has made no mention of this potential caveat. 

Another spanner is returns are not included when calculating the thresholds. eBay has no idea whether an item (or a previous sale) will result in a return or not when a listing is being created.