EBay asking for national insurance number

[raik1performance]

Hi everyone, I recently joined for like 1 month and I start selling as a private seller , and now eBay is asking me to provide national insurance number.

"New UK digital sales reporting legislation requires sellers with 30 or more sales, or who have sales exceeding £1740 in a calendar year, to register this information"

[ett1954]

"Somewhat surprisingly I've yet to see any mention of their intention to ask anyone for their NINO on ebid." - Maybe no-one has yet met the annual sales criteria to be reported.

They are not exempt from the rules.  Has any member there asked the management or their forum moderators when they will be requesting the information?

[4_bathrooms]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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@theelench wrote:

Somewhat surprisingly I've yet to see any mention of their intention to ask anyone for their NINO on ebid.

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Are eBid involved in handling payments?

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Never mind; they charge seller fees so do fall under the remit of the regulations. That is, unless the total value of UK transactions they facilitated in the previous calendar year was less than €1M which seems unlikely.

[4_bathrooms]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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That is, unless the total value of UK transactions they facilitated in the previous calendar year was less than €1M which seems unlikely.

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Actually...having looked at the number of active listings and browsing a few categories that had many non-UK established sellers they could well have facilitated less than €1M (about £841,000) in sales for UK sellers last year. They would be an "excluded platform" if that was indeed the case.

[*maetrix*]

Agreed.

I wouldn't trust ebay as far as I could throw them.

[*maetrix*]

So if everybody refused,ebay wouldn't have a leg to stand on...?

[ett1954]

"So if everybody refused,ebay wouldn't have a leg to stand on...?" - But not everyone will refuse; a small minority might do but that will be their decision not to sell online anymore (not just eBay).

Government rules, regulations and requirements change all the time; as a sole trader or small business you learn to get on with it, or you quit trading and get a job with an employer.  As a private seller you have always got car boot sales to fall back on instead of online selling; that's not a viable option for a business.

I am sure a small proportion of private sellers will stop selling online because of this; I am also sure most business sellers will carry on as usual.  None of this will have the slightest impact on eBay or any other major selling platform.

[theelench]

& in reply to @ett1954    Not that I've seen.  Judging by the small amount of interest in the only thread I've seen on the topic, hardly anyone is interested.

Trying to make a sensible estimate or even a wild guess at what is actually being sold there is next to impossible.  There are no Sold pages to filter by, few sellers have FB that truly reflects the number of sales and I find the figures for UK and Worldwide listings highly suspect.  (I look regularly at my glass category and although I have about 250 listings the 'official' figure is sometimes a negative number).

There is a "Recently Sold" stripe on the HP, but although I look at that regularly I can't begin to work out what it is showing (it might be items as they are paid for?).  Last night it was showing 12 items sold between 23:20  18/5 and  11:30 19/5.  This morning it's showing items sold between 11:42 and 14:30 on 19/5. 

BUT some items I saw last night are still being shown, others have been replaced with more recent sales and even a couple of earlier sales that were not shown last night.   ???????

Obviously postcards and stamps feature heavily very often sold for pennies or a £ or 2.  But magazines/comics are popular and cost a bit more.  Model railway items at £20-40 sell regularly as do health and beauty and over the counter healthcare products.  This morning a sofa and a bed (pretty rare at over £300) and a scattering of assorted collectables and prices.

How the items are rotated I have no idea, all I can say is more sells than some people imagine as the stripe is changing regularly.  It's easy to miss when browsing but unlike ebay, in many categories most sales aren't made on the more visible pages 1 - 3, they are more often made on the last couple of pages.   So in all honesty I can't even guess whether their total sales in a year are anywhere near 1M Euros or not.

About the only thing I can say is that I've never seen a non-UK seller shown on the .uk recently sold stripe, presumably they will be shown on the HP of wherever they are registered.

[ett1954]

Interesting observations.  I did dabble with eBid when I first started on eBay around 20 years ago and took out the life membership package.  My sales after two years was the grand total of one book.  I have never logged on since.

It is difficult to find definitive information about the company - they don't publish the number of sellers on the platform.  They state 4 million listings at one time available and average sales (not profit) for a business quoted by members seems to be anywhere between £200 and £750 per month which is obviously not sustainable for many businesses, even as an addition to other platforms being used, unless the effort to list is minimal; time management being critical.

With only 21 employees and an annual revenue just shy of £33m it comes across as a company that is just happy to plod along providing a nice income for its senior management with no motivation to try and compete with the 'big boys'; but on the plus side with no risk to the status quo.

With the low selling fees I can certainly see the attraction for private sellers who are in no hurry to sell quickly.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

I cannot believe how many people are so ignorant and so obsessed with their own uninformed ideas.  It has been pointed out more than once (and the actual gov website details) as to where it is stated that online sites have to provide the details to HMRC.   So your response  'at last someone possibly exposing the truth' just makes you look either silly or ignorant.

[kath3735_wxmjn]

that will be e bids problem if they are not complying with a government regulation.

[specialk1937]

HMRC already hold these details. Every piece of correspondence I have ever
received from them over the years bears my NI number at the top of their
letterhead, and I can't think that I am a special case!

[jckl1957]

So ironic - that a member who will cheerfully give out their date of birth in a public online forum visible to anybody who cares to visit it, refuses to respond to a legitimate request to privately pass on their NINO to Ebay.

Security concious?  Not very.

[specialk1937]

There's no logic to what you say!
Just because certain details about you are in the public domain is no
reason to go for broke and blindly declare everything about yourself to
all and sundry without question!

[jckl1957]

There's no logic to what you do!

The second key piece of sensitive information that could facilitate identity theft (after your name) is your date of birth.

However, you are prepared to publish that information, in a public forum, for an unknown number of random people to see while refusing to give your NINO to Ebay.

I am not the one blindly declaring everything about myself to all and sundry. 

[k3vyn.w]

Totally agree, its Blackmail..ebay have no right to hold funds..

[specialk1937]

The comparison you repeatedly make is is non-sensical. I was 88 last last
Monday, and it bothers me not that people could work out my birth date from
that! Whether or not to declare one's National Insurance Number, bank
details, or any other personal details about yourself without question, is
an entirely different ball game!
For God sake get real!

[theelench]

Well, you've found out more about them than I've been bothered to do in the 12 years I've been there.  But do I really care about the company?  They leave me alone and do their job, keeping the site running well enough to enable me to sell fairly regularly and sell more than I have on ebay for the past few years.

Yes it does suit me as a private seller although technically, since it's now "free" to sell on ebay, it should be cheaper for private sellers to sell here.  But as selling here is conditional on promoting (currently for my listing at 11%) ebid's 10p listing fees + 5% FVF is still cheaper than ebay.

But the main reason I like it there is the lack of intrusion and greed and it's common sense approach to sellers and their needs.  No Fantasy Delivery Dates or other silly metrics.   No nagging to Reduce Your Price.  No nagging to send or allow Offers.

No FVF on P&P.  No Promoted Listings.  No payment Holds 

It still uses the old collectables categories and a Key-Word based search and it's Run Until Sold (RUS) listings don't need all the s*dd*ng about "refreshing" every few weeks.  They're all as visible as the day they were listed and it takes me about half the time it takes to list a new item there than it does on ebay.

As I've said many times, people buy my stuff over there because they can find it (and probably paypal protection helps a bit as well).

I certainly wouldn't recommend it to businesses that rely on high volume, quick sales.  Or even those that don't if they can't see that it is different to ebay and learn to use it's good points to their advantage, instead of doing what they do on ebay and expecting ebid to do the rest.  It won't.

But back to NINOs.  

I decided that I don't trust ebay with mine and I don't want to be caught in the trap of having any sales proceeds held by ebay until I comply with their demands.  Although I'm pretty sure that ebay can't keep the money forever.  I think that after 180 days ebay must close the account and pay out the money.  Once it becomes clear that the blackmail won't work there is no alternative but to close non-compliant accounts and (probably) inform HMRC of the fact that the seller no longer sells on ebay.  The OECD might allow payment holds and ending selling privileges in the short-term, but I don't think it would go so far as to legitimise theft.

[vinylscot]

Of course HMRC already hold these details.

That is one of the reasons the new legislation requires the online platforms to obtain the information, and to quote it when submitting their returns. It means it can all be tied together more easily.

HMRC may not have your current address, for example. Many people have no direct contact with them over many many years, and will have moved house many times in that period.

You try writing to them, with an address they may not have, without quoting your NINO, and just signing your letter "John Smith". How long do you think you would need to wait for a reply? If you got one at all, it would probably be to request your NINO.

The legislation allows it, so there is no question that eBay is entitled to ask for your NINO. eBay is also entitled to refuse to allow you to sell on their platform, for any or no reason at all, including refusal to provide your NINO. I would imagine your funds would be released at some time in the future.

On other threads regarding closure of accounts, it has been stated that accounts often aren't completely closed until six months after the last sale, to allow for any chargebacks, etc. I would imagine funds would be released after that time.

I addition, you brainboxes who refuse to comply are simply gifting HMRC with a list of individuals who merit investigation. It is quite logical to assume that those who are proving to be the most obstructive will be those with something to hide. If they have to spend valuable man hours tying your eBay sales data to a NINO, you can bet they aren't going to stop there. You will be added to the "needs attention" pile. Seems a little counter-productive, does it not?

[*maetrix*]

Well this "brainbox" as you so childishly put it is seeing all of these companies getting cyber attacks and not trusting any of them with looking after my personal information.

I'm sure i'm not alone in thinking this.

[specialk1937]

I fully understand that if people do not bother to advise everyone of any
change of address that this can create problems, with the first consequence
of course, being the non-delivery of any mail!
However, be that as it may. contact with HMRC is usually a fairly regular
thing with most people over the years, who pay tax, based on their
earnings. I have been retired for 28 years, yet they still communicate with
me once a year at least with any advice about my coding based on my OAP and
OCC PEN. Every piece of paper I ever receive from them clearly states my
NI Number, which they obviously know, so they don't need to ask ebay for
it! Not to give it to ebay, doesn't suggest you have got something to hide
either! Put simply. you should be on your guard about giving it. As I
have implied in previous correspondence we live in times where there is
surveillance and scams, so there is a need for everybody be very wary about
who we give our personal details to. I believe therefore, that those who
question doing so are acting wisely and responsibly, whilst others who
blindly give anything they asked for, are just asking for trouble!
It was interesting to read that ebid are not asking sellers for their NI
Numbers, so let those who blindly hand out theirs do so, but I have written
to the Tax Office and told them that I will not be giving my NI Number to
ebay and have pointed out that this information is strictly confidential
and a matter between me and HMRC