EBay asking for national insurance number

[raik1performance]

Hi everyone, I recently joined for like 1 month and I start selling as a private seller , and now eBay is asking me to provide national insurance number.

"New UK digital sales reporting legislation requires sellers with 30 or more sales, or who have sales exceeding £1740 in a calendar year, to register this information"

[owl904]

National Insurance Number is not your Tax Identification Number, your Tax Identification Number is what you will find on your pay slip if employed by a business which is unique to that business or any pensions you may receive each has a unique number. or if self employed. eBay have enough information about your selling account. eBay simply can let the taxman know your selling I.D. HMRC have a department that monitors eBay have done for years. The recent breach at HMRC was because hackers found a way into their system using peoples NI numbers that they had acquired. Feel free to dish yours out might as well give ebay all your pin numbers to cards you use as well.

[specialk1937]

More fool anyone who gives their NI Number over without thinking through
the consequences. They deserve all they get!

[jckl1957]

The UK government website says they are the same thing for individual sellers:

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-exchange-of-information/ieim902330

TIN for Individual Sellers

For an individual Seller resident in the UK, the TIN will normally be the Seller’s NINO. The majority of UK resident Sellers will already have a NINO. If a Seller does not have a NINO, but they are working in the UK via a Platform, they will need to obtain a NINO from HMRC.

[ett1954]

"....  your Tax Identification Number is what you will find on your pay slip if employed by a business which is unique to that business or any pensions you may receive each has a unique number." - That is your National Insurance number and it is unique to an individual - not a business.  It can be found on your payslips, P60s, letters about tax, pensions and benefits; and is your identifier to your personal tax account with HMRC, sometimes referred to as your Tax Identification Number (TIN).

[*devils.advocate*]

But it’s not just eBay or Etsy or Vinted - it’s all online sales sites.

Take AirBnB as an example - some units are £150 per night - that’s £1050 per week.

What about the other 51 weeks?

Maybe that’s one reason for such a low number as 30?

In respect of genuine private sellers (like I was or as you are), we, along with most of eBay's private sellers, are just peanuts in comparison.

[papso22]

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@steve.hrs wrote:
Oh, the aspersions... I guess you'll be ok with Government surveillance  cameras in your house then, if you've nothing to hide?
The UK Government won't stop intruding into everyone's lives and take every penny they can squeeze. Setting the declaration limit at a lowly £1700 turnover over in a year is ridiculous and only shows their eventual  intention to ignore the purchase costs of the items and grab tax on the full £1700 as if it was all profit.  And once the furore dies down they'll then dicker with it and demand a tax on every sale regardless of the amount.
But what the Government and eBay fail to appreciate is that people like myself will simply stop selling anything online other than FBM (where they don't control the money transaction) and we'll also resurrect the card in the shop window or supermarket noticeboards when there's no shops left! Only when eBay's profits suffer will they lobby Government to stop meddling in their marketplace and therefore the only way we can fight is to bring a good bit of anarchy to their business model and also force the Government to become less bloated and get back to living within it's means without shafting the citizens who actually build the economy (meaning the private sector and not the public sector parasites). Which of these are you?
Only government employees who live off the overtaxed private sector would see this rule as reasonable.






 

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You really have no idea do you!

[insidethe93]

In short: legislation tasks eBay with obtaining your National Insurance number (NI), if your selling activity reaches certain thresholds, and if you withhold your NI then both you AND eBay can be punished. There's no HMRC guidance as how eBay goes about trying to obtain the NI from an unco-operative seller; at the moment there's merely an expectation that eBay would "restrict" the seller's accounts, which is vague to say the least. On another thread someone wants the Financial Ombudsman to look into this, though the FO can't diminish the Regulations but could, for instance, specify in details what actions an online platform can reasonably be expected to take so as to get a seller to provide the NI.

In long (feel free to skip, especially as I've posted similar on a similar thread elsewhere) -

I sympathise as NI is data (like date of birth, bank details) would be a gift to ID-thieves, but eBay of course has policies and procedures in place to protect your data. Ebay can only handle your data as regulated by legislation/GDPR. So if you sell on eBay presumably you're happy (or reluctantly willing) for eBay to pass personal info to HMRC like date of birth, then why not NI?

It's the government (not eBay) that requires you to provide your NI (once your transactions reached the qualifying threshold) as the Regulations require eBay to report to HMRC. eBay cannot disobey, as it's the law. If you want to research for yourself, it's the Platform Operators (Due Diligence and Reporting Requirements) Regulations 2023, which became operative (in Britain) from 1st Jan. 2024. Info eBay MUST collect and give to HMRC include: your full name, registered address on eBay, date of birth, NI (once your transaction number/£amount qualify you), bank account (the one that eBay pays you), transaction history including quantity and £amount excluding eBay fees.

It could be argued that the Regulations save you from having to report the info to HMRC yourself.

It's a large requirement on selling platforms such as eBay - they're required to work for HMRC.

If you withhold your NI, eBay can only flag your non-compliance but, rather unfairly, that doesn't legally absolve eBay: HMRC is empowered to punish (usually by a fine) not just you but eBay too, if it chooses. I don't know if you wrote separately to HMRC with your NI whether that'd avoid you being punished - I believe if things were fair then it should do so but I would't bet on it. By the way HMRC isn't necessarily 100% at keeping info secure, judging from its recent data breach.

A problem is that HMRC "expects" selling platforms to "restrict" a seller's account if a seller won't provide the NI, but there's no detailed guidance on what to do, so eBay (probably just as any selling platform would do) has decided the best way to compel compliance (and thereby also save eBay from being punished) is via payment holds and/or suspending a seller's account otherwise a seller could just leave. One poster to a similar thread, pointed out also that eBay suspends any buying too. It could be said that eBay's been put in a difficult position re NI, but a seller is cross with eBay but ultimately it's the government who's to blame for the situation.

Now I for one believe eBay shouldn't (under any circumstances) keep any interest earned from withholding a seller's money but should pay that interest to the seller, but I do appreciate that eBay needs to do its legal duty if it can.

Bottom line: tell HMRC direct your NI, but that might not absolve you (nor absolve eBay) from HMRC punishment if you don't tell eBay so it can tell HMRC. Telling eBay is perhaps the easiest and simplest way to discharge your obligation. If there are a lot of people withholding their NI, HMRC might impose a large fine then let's hope eBay wouldn't decide to claw it back somehow from customers site-wide. It's a real pain, but if you eventually decide you can't win, then provide the NI then have a good rant at the government for putting you and eBay in this difficult position.

[ett1954]

"By the way HMRC isn't necessarily 100% at keeping info secure, judging from its recent data breach." - to be fair to HMRC they haven't had a data breach.  This, as is usually the case, is the result of individuals releasing their information to scammers through phishing mails.  The scammers then used the information to attempt to reclaim tax from HMRC.

[insidethe93]

It's not just your employer who's legally entitled to ask for your National Insurance number (NI).

Others include HMRC, Dept of Work & Pensions, Student Loans Company, online selling platforms such as eBay (from 1st Jan 2024).

Often only: banks and financial institutions (tax reporting on interest and investments), and education providers (funding, loans, admin checks).  

[insidethe93]

Thanks for correcting me. Cheers.

[specialk1937]

A lot of words have been spoken here, so I will restrict mine, in the hope
we can begin to see the wood from the trees!
I have corresponded with HMRC about this matter who seem to feel that they
are the piggy in the middle in all of this. They of course, have my
National Insurance Number, as indeed they have everyone else's, and they
will usually quote it to you in correspondence if they ever communicate
with you. So seemingly the only reason eBay want it is to marry the number
with a name when passing earnings details onto HMRC
HMRC have also confirmed that a private seller who.is pruning down their
own possessions will not be subject to tax. In which case perhaps nobody
should have nothing to fear in disclosing there NI Numbers, but I would
suggest that before doing so, everyone should, in their own interests, be
made fully aware of the risks! It was suggested in the past that you
should only give this information to your employer, which in itself should
put you on your guard against giving this information out freely,
especially in this day and age when so much emphasis is placed on the need
for security because of theft!
So, in short, whilst there will be those who are comfortable about giving
out this information to all and sundry, I remain sceptical, so I have
refused to pass this information on to eBay. I would also urge others who
feel this way, to do the same! No doubt, there will be consequences, but
if this means I will be blackballed from selling on eBay, so be it! In
fact, I have already taken the decision to discontinue selling on eBay. not
purely because of this, but also eBays imposition of a Buyers Protection
Fee, which crippled my sales, then postal restrictions were implemented,
all of which left me feeling that I had had enough, and already I am
feeling a tremendous amount of relief of being free from all this hassle!
It was a case of why make life difficult, when with a bit more effort you
can make it impossible!!
My advice therefore to those of a similar mind is to chuck it in and get a
life!

[the_north_star]

Yes that makes perfect sense. Thank you.


Sent from Outlook for Android<>

[steve.hrs]

5 things that are not your friend; 1. HMRC, 2. the UK Government, 3. Local Councils, 4. eBay, 5. Red Wine. They will all F you at some point 😞

[theelench]

I feel exactly the same and have done as you suggest.

[specialk1937]

I will stick with the Red Wine!