EBay asking for national insurance number

[raik1performance]

Hi everyone, I recently joined for like 1 month and I start selling as a private seller , and now eBay is asking me to provide national insurance number.

"New UK digital sales reporting legislation requires sellers with 30 or more sales, or who have sales exceeding £1740 in a calendar year, to register this information"

[jckl1957]

No, that didn't happen although I did reply to another member - not you.  (It's not always about you.)

I am only responding to this post to suggest you don't make assumptions about a person's gender - I am not a 'bloke'.

[papso22]

Just to clear up the postage point, if it is charged to the buyer by the seller and then bought by the seller from a courier, it is an in and an out.

So it's 'income' and 'expenditure', and may be two different amounts.

If tax is due it's calculated on the net amount, income less expenditure,  i.e the profit.

[gibbsma]

yes. If you are paying HMRC right on your tax return then you should have nothing to worry about. I think ebay will freeze your account if you don't provide it.

[ravergamer]

Hackers took over the NHS and threatened to release all the massive gigabytes of data on the Dark Web at a ransom for money. NHS didn't pay up so the hackers released all data.

I'm very sure everyone's national insurance number are in the hands of scammers, thieves you name in. 

[ravergamer]

I keep seeing these ebay ads on tv etc. "It's now free to sell on ebay" they fail to mention about all this hmrc business. 

Imagine all the sales data given to hmrc from ebay and vinted. It must be in the millions. I can't imagine a small team investigating every seller. Surely they look at business sellers with high income. 

Looking at private sellers who have hit this threshold has to be a waste of time. Unless there's an automated system in place that triggers a response. 

I have surpassed this threshold and ebay have asked for my NI number. I sell items but it's never fir profit. I'm a huge gamer and I sell just to get rid, mostly selling off games for less than I originally paid for them. There's also sales on there from my 16 year old daughters games so she can have a bit of money for when she goes out. My brother had a bunch of old games on the loft and asked my to sell them. 

So are hmrc asking me to pay tax for this. It's a joke if they are. 

I mean these items have been taxed multiple times. Shop tax, import tax, manufacturers paying tax, profit tax the list goes on. Now the government want people who sell used goods privately to pay tax. Greed that what it is. 

Its no different than if I took my games to cex and when they give the cash, they take 20% from it to tax man. 

[lucy_farmer]

'So are hmrc asking me to pay tax for this'

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No, if you're selling your own and your family's own old stuff, they won't be asking you to pay tax.

If you make enough sales to get over the reporting limit, HMRC's computer will have a quick look at you to see if you match up with any of the 'identifiers' of people who are trading.

(computer will be looking for lots of Brand New things, lots of the same new things, lots of 'consumables',  listings that state 'choose your size/colour ' etc ...)

'Now the government want people who sell used goods privately to pay tax.'

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No they don't.

They're not going to say *no* to catching out people who are trading 'under the radar', but this wasn't solely

the UK govt. aim, or indeed, idea.

This whole 'handing over details to financial authorities' is a scheme put in place by the OECD.  Which is an organisation composed of most of the civilised western world's financial 'offialdom' (in the UK's case, that's HMRC)

The overt reason for it is to try and come down on online money-laundering. (the 'side effect' of getting a look into people's selling accounts is probably also very welcome...😎)

The fact that the limits seem such an odd amount of money and small amount of sales is because of there being so many different countries involved.

The £1750. limit is about 2000 euros (which is the most common currency in the OECD) and the small amount of actual sales is because there are a *few* countries involved who aren't quite so financially based and use more *things* than currency than we are used to....

[specialk1937]

I would not advise anyone to register as a business if they clearly don't run a business, and are merely pruning down their own possessions.,  For example I have been collecting LP records since I was in my early 20's.  I am now 88 years of age!   That's over 60 years  of collecting, so  If I tell you that I bought on average 1 LP a week you don't have to be a mathematician to work out that my collection  at one stage ran into four figures.  On top of that in recent times I have bought some CD's and DVD's as well.  I joined ebay 21 years ago and started selling some things off, mainly because having lived in a small cottage, space was limited and I was reaching saturation point, so I have had to gradually prune things down.  I therefore resent any implication that I am in the wrong category in selling what I have accrued over the years.  or any suggestion that I may be behaving illegally.  I therefore took exception to ebay asking for my NI Number, this is something I have only ever given to my employer and ebay is not my employer, then I realised that that they  are obliged to ask for this information.  I have yet to supply this number, but I have written to HMRC to inform them of my situation!   Frankly, though when this issue is coupled with ebays Buyer Protection Fee being levied at Private Sellers I feel I have just about had enough.   This fee has completely eroded my sales, and the only decision I feel that I am faced with now  is to close my sellers account, or perhaps just close my remaining listings and just leave the account dormant,  and just use ebay for buying.  I have not worked out yet which of those two options to take!

[steve.hrs]

I have recently lodged complaints with both HMRC and eBay.  HMRC is to complaint that they're forcing eBay to demand personal information protected by the Data Protection Act and which can be used for nefarious purposes by eBay personnel or others whom they might pass the information on to, such as scammers. The complaint to eBay is that they are taking advantage of the new rules to withhold peoples payments until they give over their NI number. This is sharp practice and they'll profit from the big pot of withheld funds they gather as sensible people protect their personal information from digital platforms. If everyone complains and deluges both eBay and HMRC with complaints, then they may accept that the contact information eBay already has available (name/address/phone/email) is sufficient for HMRC to match to NI numbers and there's no real need for eBay's opportunists to be given such personal details.

[specialk1937]

Your informative reply is indeed food for thought and leaves me feeling
that we are far too compliant in always doing what we are told to do
without questioning what is behind it all!

[ett1954]

"The complaint to eBay is that they are taking advantage of the new rules to withhold peoples payments until they give over their NI number." - Not so, eBay, along with other digital platforms, have been instructed by HMRC to request seller's NI number once a particular threshold of income and/or sales is reached in a calendar year.

This is an OECD ruling in an effort to identify digital currency movements which can be used for nefarious purposes.  eBay have no option but to request the information and any digital platform will have no option but to restrict sales or services should it not be given.  Just to add any information given is still protected by the Data Protection Act.

[alfifletch27]

Correct

Sent from my iPhone

[steve.hrs]

Sorry but no, HMRC has not told eBay and the other digital platforms that they must withhold payouts to Sellers to force compliance. 

eBay has decided to do this on its own, as their way to force customers to hand over their personal tax information which eBay can then use in whatever way it wants, under the guise that HMRC demands they do. 

I have read the Act, and there's no requirement for eBay to withhold payouts.

Beware of unintended consequences; as scammers will eventually obtain this personal information, either through hacking or from bad actors within eBay.

[steve.hrs]

I'd add that the OECD ruling is purely advisory from this self-serving Paris based organization. It only advises and can't dictate UK policy, especially to HMRC.

eBay has been 'requested' not 'instructed' to 'request' the NI number. They have not stated that providing only the contact details they already hold fails to meet the obligation to submit annual reports. 

eBay is simply seeing this as an opportunity to obtain more information on their platform's users and they'll undoubtedly use it/sell it/lose it and it'll be used for other purposes than initially intended.

They need to stick to the strict wording of the Act, and should not 'develop' their own interpretation and mode of compliance.

[papso22]

HMRC instructions to the likes of ebay say they need to provide the NI number with the sales data.

I am sure ebay would rather not bother collecting this information but they have no choice.

[specialk1937]

That's interesting and a relief to me since I phased down my sales to one
and have transferred any previous earnings into my Bank, so if I read you
right, I can delete my remaining sale if need be, and with no earnings
held, close my seller account. Some though have suggested I should leave
it open and empty, so I have yet to decide which of those two options I
should go for! Any advice?

[ett1954]

"I'd add that the OECD ruling is purely advisory from this self-serving Paris based organization. It only advises and can't dictate UK policy, especially to HMRC." - First, the OECD is not a self serving Paris based organisation.  It was headquartered in Paris because that was where the original convention was signed to administer American and Canadian aid under the Marshall Plan for the reconstruction of Europe after World War II.  It now encompasses 38 member countries and comes to democratically achieved agreements with a representative from each member country.  Second, it is dictating nothing to HMRC, the reporting criteria were agreed by each member country and it is each member's government which enforces them.  One of the OECD's primary aims is to ensure transparent taxation.

"eBay has been 'requested' not 'instructed' to 'request' the NI number." - From the government reporting rules for digital platforms: 

For individual sellers

You need to report their:

• full name
• home address
• date of birth
• National Insurance number if they live in the UK — if they live outside the UK, the tax identification number and the country where it was issued
• other tax identification numbers (like a VAT number) and where they were issued — if available

Further and more comprehensive details for digital platforms can be found at:  Check if you need to carry out digital platform reporting - GOV.UK

Whilst digital platforms haven't been told specifically to withhold payment the restriction of selling activity and the withholding of income is the most effective sanction they have to obtain the information required and prevent themselves for being fined for not completing their required due diligence reporting on active sellers meeting the reporting criteria.