Return request from buyer

[jelliott537]

I sold a brand new, sealed computer game which the buyer received on Tuesday.

On Wednesday I received a message saying that the game they received would not start. When they inserted the disc into their console it either failed to load entirely or showed an error message. They say they tested the disc on another console but the problem persists. They reckon the disc is defective or damaged.

They sent a photo of the disc case open. The booklet looked tatty with creases on two of the corners and in the middle (one of the corners looked chewed). There also was possibly a small amount of damage to the case. The game was packaged very well in a box, bubble wrap etc so it was very unlikely to have been damaged in transit.

Yesterday I messaged the buyer asking for a short video of loading and the error message and haven't heard anything. Today I asked if they're signed into the console network and manufacturer servers but again nothing back. The game is not playable without the internet.

I am concerned because the buyer is not replying. Also, I would not have expected the booklet to be in such condition given they'd only had it just over 24hrs.

Should I go ahead and pay for the return postage and then see what I get back?

Thanks for any advice.

[**peaseblossom**]

You will probably have to accept the return and see what happens.   If you get a different item back you can appeal by contacting ebay.  You can use callback on here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

[jelliott537]

Thank you for your reply and for coming back to me so quickly.

I was wondering what would happen if I accepted the return even though the booklet is tatty and doesn't look new (they'd only had it 33hrs). Would I then be able to argue that there's an issue with it or should I mention it to the buyer before I accept the return? I have attached a copy of the photo of the booklet (taken from the photo of the case open) which was sent to me. They have 23 feedback and nothing in the last 6 months.

I was unsure what this from the ebay page 'Ask ebay to step in and help for sellers' means.

"If eBay steps in to help with a return at any stage and the buyer returns the item used or damaged, you'll no longer be able to deduct an amount from the buyer's refund, even if you qualify under our seller protections."

Does this mean that the buyer then gets a full refund?

Thanks again for your help.

[**peaseblossom**]

You don't want to allow ebay to step in.   The system tends to favour buyers, especially at this stage.  I would get the item back and take it from there.   Looking at the photo I suppose the damage could have happened in transit.  Looks like something heavy was dropped onto it.   If so you would have to refund buyer but you can put in a claim for compensation to the courier for yourself.

@jelliott537 

[jelliott537]

Thanks for such a speedy reply.

I had the same thoughts about allowing ebay to step in. Do you think it's worth messaging the buyer to check that they haven't used the voucher code for the PS5 upgrade for the game? Also, is it worth mentioning the damage to the booklet? They haven't said that there was any damage in transit. I have until 27th to respond.

Thanks yet again for your help.

[**peaseblossom**]

The buyer isn't replying so probably no point in contacting them again.    They will be able to escalate the case to ebay on the 27th.   It's possible they've decided to keep it and won't escalate.   If so the case will expire without refund eventually.   Timescale for that is not specific, you'd just have to wait it out.   On the other hand ebay sometimes refund without return.   So it's up to you what to do.   I would probably accept the return.

[jelliott537]

Thanks again.

I'll accept the return - I don't really see that I've much choice, and see what comes back. 

[**peaseblossom**]

I think that's best.   Good luck, I hope it goes OK.

[jelliott537]

Further to the issue with the buyer wanting to return a computer game, I'd be grateful if you could advise on the latest messages.

I contacted him yesterday, after I'd corresponded with yourself, as a last attempt to find out if he'd got the game to work (and to see if he'd used the upgrade to PS5 code and I mentioned the booklet).

He replied with "hi, I haven't had any issues playing the game once signed into the PS network and EA servers. Everything seems to be working fine in that regard"

So yesterday I messaged back saying I was really pleased that it was working and could he cancel the returns request. I sent him a copy of the instructions for cancelling a returns request.

I messaged him this morning as I hadn't heard from him.

I messaged again this evening and he's finally replied with "Good morning, Jill. I understand your concern, but I cannot cancel the return request until I have completed the return process and received my refund. Please provide a return shipping label so I can return the item. Thank you for your understanding"

I have messaged back asking him why he wants a refund when it works fine. No reply as yet.

I do not accept returns. Obviously if an item is faulty or broken then that's a different matter. He's opened a brand new game, played with it and now wants to return it. Obviously I can't sell it if I get it back.

Can you please let me know how I'm best proceeding. I have to respond by 27th.

Thanks

[arkwebus]

This seems strange!   The problem is that he seems to feel that - despite it working - there is something wrong.  You do not have any time to discuss this with the buyer [and certainly not with eBay].  If you do not send the label within 3 x 24 [business] hours of the matter being opened [to the minute] the buyer can escalate to eBay who may simply refund.  Even when you get it back and find it working you have to refund [within 48 hours if I recall].  You could try appealing afterwards but we do not hear of eBay being particularly proactive "we never see what was sent or returned!"   @jelliott537   

[jelliott537]

Thanks for your speedy reply.

My interpretation is that at first he couldn't get it to work because he wasn't connected to the PS and EA servers. I explained to him that he needed to be connected to them and low and behold it works.

He had initially said that "The FIFA 25 game for PS4 I received does not start. When I insert the disc into my console, it either fails to load entirely or shows an error message. I tested the disc on another PS4 console to ensure the issue is not with my device, but the problem persists. The disc seems to be defective or damaged. I would appreciate a refund"

I'm not aware that he's got any problems with it now. He just wants his money back. The pamphlet looked tatty - not as if he'd had it for only a few hrs. The game seems to work fine (by his own admission).

I don't see why I should lose ~£45 when he's basically changed his mind. Clearly once he's been refunded I've no chance of getting any money back. It seems so wrong when I haven't done anything wrong and you and your team spending time advising me (I'm very grateful!).

Do you have any further suggestions?

[jelliott537]

Hello

I'm still worrying about this return request.

The buyer seems adamant they want a return label so they can send the game back and get their money back even though they can now play it and have played it. They haven't said that there's been any problems playing it so I assume it's absolutely fine. It follows that, the return reason "Doesn't work or is defective" is inaccurate / incorrect.

I'm worried that I won't get the original copy back and that I will have to refund the buyer. The booklet looked tatty and there was possible damage to the case.

The buyer has a feedback score of 23, none in the last 6 months and 4 in the 6 months before that. These are likely automatic feedbacks as they're very big sellers with feedbacks 401,000, 27,500, 170,000 and 12,000.

Would ebay have records showing if the buyer had requested returns in the past? 

I've sold and bought lots of items over the years and not had a problem before. Now I'd be very reluctant to sell to anyone without good, recent feedback. Would I be able to refuse to sell to someone like the buyer I'm having problems with?

Thanks for any advice.

[tressygirl]

Yes,  eBay will have records of returns,  and probably would not look favourably to the buyer if there was a pattern of many returns made.

Only when you have received the item back do you fully refund through the case details.

If the item on return is not the same as sent out or it or the booklet is damaged,  then you can appeal the decision for the refund.  I won't lie as eBay cannot see the item sent out or received it's hard to say what the outcome is on appeal.

This explains the appeal process:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-outcome-case-seller?id=4369

@jelliott537 

[jelliott537]

Thanks so much for your reply and I'm sorry to bother you again but it keeps going round and round in my mind.

Do you know what this statement on the ebay page 'Ask ebay to step in and help for sellers' means?

"If eBay steps in to help with a return at any stage and the buyer returns the item used or damaged, you'll no longer be able to deduct an amount from the buyer's refund, even if you qualify under our seller protections."

Does this mean that the buyer then gets a full refund no matter what the returned item is like?

Thanks again for your help.

[tressygirl]

As a Private seller you will need to fully refund regardless if a case for item not as described is opened,  there is no facility to offer less.

You have to refund all the buyer initially paid you.  Cases are all automated once opened you do have accept within 3 days,  or the buyer can escalate on day 4,  eBay force the refund,  the buyer here,  may even get to keep the item.

If a damaged item is returned,  then you bring a case for appeal to eBay.  Appeals are not easy and I won't lie,  eBay do usually side with the buyer because they do not see the item in question.

@jelliott537 

[jelliott537]

Thanks for replying so quickly.

The system seems incredibly weighted towards the buyer. The buyer said the game wouldn't work, now says it does but still wants his money back. 

Is there anything ebay can do at this stage or is the whole process fully automated?

Is there any point in trying to contact ebay today?

Thanks yet again for your help.

[tressygirl]

If the buyer has opened a case for item not as described it is fully automated no human contact , so point challenging it at this point.

Be aware,  if you do not accept a case for item not as described within 3 days, the buyer can escalate the case eBay step in here and force the refund, you'll also get a damaging defect on your account.

I would not recommend to contact eBay at this point if the case is opened,  they do have a tendency to close it now,  but sometimes in the buyer's favour.

@jelliott537 

[jelliott537]

Thanks. That is really helpful.

In the above messages I have written exactly what the buyer has said. I feel that they know exactly what they are doing and have done it before so hopefully ebay will have a record of their activities.

To me it is obvious what the buyer is trying to do but as you say there's no guarantee as to how ebay would decide.

[jelliott537]

Hello again

Firstly, thank you for all your help so far.

I would be grateful if you could give me some further advice relating to the return request for the PS4 game FC 25 as I have just received notification that the buyer has sent the item back and I should get it back soon.

To recap - buyer bought brand new sealed game, received 21.1.25 then just over 24hrs put in a return request saying it doesn't start. The photo he attached showed damage to the booklet and scratches to the case. I asked for video showing  inserting disc and error message. No reply. I emailed again suggesting he logged in to PS network and EA servers. No reply - then sent follow up message. Finally he replied saying he hadn't had any problems playing the game since he signed in to PS network and EA servers. I thanked him for coming back to me, took it that he was happy to keep the game and said about cancelling his return request. A couple of my further emails asking him to cancel the return request were ignored then he replied saying he can't cancel the return request until he received his refund. 

26.1.25 I accepted his return and organised a return label via ebay.

Following this I called into a computer games shop and showed them the photo of the of booklet and they expanded it on my mobile screen and said that there was no way it was new. They also pointed out various scuffs on the case which again indicated it wasn't new (this was bearing in mind the buyer had only had it just over 24hrs). They are happy to test the disc if needed.

As I only have a very short time to refund the buyer before ebay steps in and does it automatically, I wanted to know what I should do. Should I get the game assessed by the games shop (this is a 10 mile round trip), or see what damage there is and contact Action Fraud, or refund and then take it up with ebay? I expect the game back on Monday so would like to have a plan in place before I get it back.

Thank you in advance for your advice.

[tressygirl]

This is eBay's answer as to how long the buyer has to return the item after receiving your return label, but as said,  if they don't return the item,  you do not refund and the case should close in your favour.

Ask eBay to step in

If the seller hasn't responded or hasn't issued a refund by the refund deadline, or if the buyer and seller can't reach a resolution, either party can ask us to step in and help.

Earliest:

• Once the seller has accepted the return, or 3 business days after the request date

Latest:

• 21 business days after the request date, if the seller never responded
• 10 business days after the refund deadline has passed, if the seller is issuing a refund

• eBay may hold the return request open for up to 35 business days after the date the return was accepted.

@jelliott537 

[jelliott537]

Hi

The buyer has posted the game back to me. It is currently at Birmingham MC so I expect it to be delivered to me on Monday. I wanted to know what I should do once I get it back.

As I only have a very short time to refund the buyer before ebay steps in and does it automatically, I wanted to know what I should do. Should I get the game assessed by the games shop (this is a 10 mile round trip), or see what damage there is and contact Action Fraud, or refund and then take it up with ebay? I expect the game back on Monday so would like to have a plan in place before I get it back.

Thanks

[tressygirl]

Aah ok, once the item is back with you,  then you have 48 hours to fully refund them through those case details.

No point challenging the case at that point,  as it's largely automated,  no human contact.

If on the return it's not in the same condition as sent out,  then you can challenge the refund quoting eBay's rules,  that it has not been returned in that same condition as sent to the buyer.

This explains the appeal process:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-outcome-case-seller?id=4369

@jelliott537 

[jelliott537]

Thanks for that.

I have read the link but I'm still not sure. 

Am I correct in thinking that I have to refund the buyer no matter what condition or what is returned to me?

It says on 'How to appeal a case from your seller dashboard' - go to Seller dashboard then 'Expand Closed without seller resolution to see your options.'  This seems to imply that I need to have the case closed without my resolving it. If I refund the buyer would it be deemed that I have resolved the case?

Do I then appeal this return / refund with ebay?

What happens to the buyer - he's got his money back through false pretences? Does ebay recover the money from him?

At what point do I contact Action Fraud?

Thanks again

[tressygirl]

If you receive the item and you do not refund within 48 hours,  the buyer can escalate the case to eBay,  they step in,  force the refund,  and the buyer my not even have to send the item back to you.

This is not a matter for Action Fraud,  but one for eBay to sort out,  which cannot be done until you have the item back , and see the condition it's in.

It may well be in great condition in which case I would just relist it,  add whatever postage you may have lost in the case , to the starting price.

If you haven't done so already,  block this buyer from returning here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/bmgt/BuyerBlock?

@jelliott537 

@jelliott537 

[jelliott537]

Hi

The item won't be as new as the one the buyer purchased was brand new and sealed so there's no way I'd get anything like the original value. I sold it for £37.50 with free p&p. I have spent £3.39 (sending to buyer) and £3.25 (return postage). It looks like I'll have to refund the buyer £37.50 so I'll be out of pocket by £44.14. A used game wouldn't be worth anything like this.

When I get the game back and if am not happy with its condition should I refund anyway and then take it up with ebay?

The buyer had said that the game played fine, so there was no reason to request / continue with a refund. Surely this is fraud?

Does the buyer get to keep the money no matter what?

I have already blocked the buyer. 

Thanks again

[tressygirl]

You haven't received the game back yet, only when you do,  you will have to refund, as explained cases are all automated , if you do not refund when the item is back with you,  you'll have 48 hours to do so,  then the buyer escalates , and eBay force the refund.  Then, you may not even receive your item back.

You need to appeal the decision for the refund After the refund has been made, as per the link above , I'll show this here for you :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-outcome-case-seller?id=4369

I'm not going to lie appealing a decision is not easy as eBay do not see the item in question, but you can put forward the item was sealed so ' New' and yes it had to be opened to be tested,  but if you know found the item damaged,  explain to eBay it has not been returned in good order to sell again even at a lesser value.

@jelliott537 

[jelliott537]

Thanks again.

To confirm, once I've got the game back irrespective of its condition I need to refund the buyer. If I'm not happy with its condition then I appeal the decision for the refund with ebay. The games shop has kindly offered to check the game for me so I'll be able to get another opinion on its condition and also its value. I have 30 days in which to do this.

What happens to the buyer if an appeal is won and they've already been refunded?

Thanks

[tressygirl]

You appeal After the refund , so they will have been refunded.

Once the item is back with you ,  you do not have 30 days ,  but 48 hours to refund.

Appeals are there for sellers, but as said, it's not an easy process,  there's no guarantee who eBay will believe.

@jelliott537 

[jelliott537]

Yes, I realise that I have to refund the buyer within 48hrs but have 30 days for an appeal.

What happens to a buyer if a seller wins an appeal? 

[red_magpie]

Does this mean that the buyer then gets a full refund no matter what the returned item is like?

A seller in the same situation told us that he received this rely from eBay: "Although we understand that you received your item back in a different condition than it was in when you sent it, we unfortunately couldn't determine that this was caused by the buyer".

Others have been told "As we did not see the item, either as received by the buyer or as returned to the seller, we are not in a position to determine who has the valid case, or take sides". eBay's idea of not taking sides was to support the buyer.

A few sellers have told us that eBay supported them, usually by meeting the cost of the refund themselves.Or sometimes just the cost of postage.

I fear it's going to be a bad time for sellers. With buyers so resentful about paying for "buyer protection" I'm sure that some will want to make their money's worth of claims, and eBay will be even more anxious than ever to support them.