Ebay advised Paypal case route, Paypal denied claim

[shadowcat47]

I bought a couple of "refurbished" laptops in mid-December, which took a while to be sent out. When they arrived, they were both faulty and filthy and clearly not refurbished at all. They were sent back and two more sent out, with only a marginal improvement. A small part refund was given for the inconvenience and assurances made that we could still return them again, if needed. One of them stopped working entirely, and the seller wouldn't respond, so I spoke to ebay on the phone.

The agent advised me to send them back to the same return address, recorded delivery and keep the receipt, and if a refund was not forthcoming, to open a paypal case and they would deal with it from there because "they have a longer period of time available to them". No response, tracking number says delivered. So I opened a case. This morning I woke up to find it's been denied because it's been over thirty days, despite ebay advice and overwhelming evidence to show why this was the case. Their help pages suggest I can appeal, but the link is not where it says it is, and I can't get the ebay bot to let me speak to anyone again.

Any ideas? Is this a small claims kind of situation? This has never happened before.

[*vyolla*]

You certainly shouldn't have been advised to just return the laptops, and PayPal's Buyer Protection for items that aren't as described is same as eBay's - 30 days. This really is something you should've checked yourself first with PayPal, as they are a separate company to eBay.

Did you fund the PayPal payment with a debit or credit card?

If so, get in touch with your card provider - you have 120 days from the payment date to issue a not as described chargeback via them.

[jckl1957]

The advice from Ebay was incorrect.

Ebay could not deal with your claim because you were outside of their 30 day Money Back Guarantee (30 days from receipt of the original items) and have been paid a partial refund.

If you informed them that you paid with Paypal, the advice you received was inaccurate as Paypal only allow 30 days for a claim.  Some payment providers allow up to 120 days and you may be able to contact your bank if that is how you fund your Paypal payments, although I am not sure if/how that would work.

The correct thing to do would have been to open a case for return through Ebay on receipt of the original items, and sent them back for a full refund.  There is nothing you can do through Ebay now.

[shadowcat47]

If I recall correctly, they used to be officially linked somewhere? In any case, I expected someone who likely deals with similar complaints fairly often to know what they were talking about. Unfortunately, the Paypal help pages are out of date and just send me around in circles. A card was used, yes, so I will try calling my bank. Thank you.

[*vyolla*]

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@shadowcat47 wrote:

If I recall correctly, they used to be officially linked somewhere? In any case, I expected someone who likely deals with similar complaints fairly often to know what they were talking about. Unfortunately, the Paypal help pages are out of date and just send me around in circles. A card was used, yes, so I will try calling my bank. Thank you.

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Yes, years ago eBay owned PayPal, they split in 2015.

PayPal pages aren't out of date, can you tell me which ones you're looking at on their website, perhaps provide a screenshot of that section?

[shadowcat47]

They actually were sent back and replaced once already, that's why I had an issue with it being over 30 days to begin with. That, and the fact that it happened right before Christmas. The replacement items are also faulty, is the problem.

[jckl1957]

Too late for this advice now, but I would never accept a replacement and would always choose a return and a full refund.

That way, you have the option to find a better seller with a decent, reliable product.

[papso22]

I don't know of any buyer protection schemes that cover replacements.

[plpmr]

adding to the advice already given -

"to open a paypal case and they would deal with it from there because "they have a longer period of time available to them".".

PayPal's buyer protection is basically the same as eBay's for a not as described case, they differ when a not received case is opened - eBay give 30 days from the last estimated delivery date, PayPal give 180 days from the date of payment. 

[shadowcat47]

Can't take a screenshot where I am right now, will try to grab later. But it gave directions for appealing (click x on this page) and then those options were not present, hence me thinking it needed an update. It just kept sending me around in circles.

[shadowcat47]

Will certainly not be accepting any replacement items in the future and will think twice about ebay agent advice, if indeed I buy anything else on here at all. I don't know if they just had no idea or if they were trying to get rid of me, but they didn't seem to be in a hurry, so perhaps the former.

A replacement item is surely part of the same transaction? If the aim of protection schemes is to get people the decent, functioning item that they've paid for and that still hasn't happened, then not including replacements from the same place under the same protection seems an odd choice. What's to stop people doing exactly what this company has done and just sending out something else unfit for purpose and then getting away with it? It's not really protection if there's no enforcement.

[tobiasd4]

Ebay 30 day MBG is In addition to your consumer rights.

But ebay won't help after the 30 days.

[*vyolla*]

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@shadowcat47 wrote:

Can't take a screenshot where I am right now, will try to grab later. But it gave directions for appealing (click x on this page) and then those options were not present, hence me thinking it needed an update. It just kept sending me around in circles.

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You've nothing to appeal, a case decision wasn't made by PayPal because you couldn't open a return under their Buyer Protection, that's why the option isn't available for you.

[red_magpie]

This is another case of eBay giving entirely incorrect advice.

PayPal's longer period to file a dispute only applies to non-delivery. For claims that an item was not as described PayPal has the same 30 day time limit as eBay.

You might still be able to get help from your credit or debit card issuer, but there's no guarantee. It won't help your chances that the original items were returned, and a partial refund given. If you accepted this partial refund it may weaken it further.

In future, please don't waste time and throw away your rights by trying to negotiate with sellers. If you return a faulty item do so only through eBay, which will require the seller to provide a prepaid return label. If you had just followed the procedure that eBay provides a full refund would have  been issued almost automatically.

[shadowcat47]

Unfortunately, the ebay agent told me that this was the only available option, and indeed the option was no longer displaying because these were replacement items, so that transaction already had a return on it. The part refund was meant to be for the inconvenience. There wasn't a negotiation, just an offer, which happened after the replacements arrived, but I should have just sent them back at the time. I have this in writing in ebay messages, but I do see your point.