Business Account advantages and Seller Fees

[awaywiththefaeriestirnanog]

Guys, the small print on this is melting my head. I can't find straight answers to this. ]

Recently, I've been helping a friend open an eBay account to accompany his physical store. This is a shop which sells collectables, vintage items, antique furniture, books, etc 

I opened a business account, the free version with no online shop-front. I put up the first batch of used books. The first book sold for £70. From that, there was a deduction of £8.98 "fee credits". This seems to be made up of a £6.93 fee amount + £1.39 in tax. 

I don't really have much of a problem with the small insertion fee of around £0.35p. But if I sell books at an average of £70, and I am always deducting almost £10... well, it doesn't really make any business sense,  especially after post and packing etc. 

So what exactly is my advantage is having the free version of a Businness Account? 

Also, can I switch my account type to Private Seller, or do I need to start all over again? 

I have personally been a private seller for about 20 years, and nothing about this seems to make sense to me - as I don't remember having these kind of fees as a private seller. I did read you can reclaim some of credit fees or something, but it just all seems like more complications, less convenience, and less profit. 

Thanks,

Steve. 

[jckl1957]

I am not sure if your question is about your account or your friend's account.

Your friend, who has a business, definitely needs a business account - Ebay state:

Do I need a business account?

If you plan to sell casually, such as selling items you no longer want, a private account is the best option. 

If you want to sell large quantities, if you have items that you've made or bought to resell or if you already have a business outside of eBay, you’ll need to register a business account.

Similarly, if you are trading - making or buying items to sell - you need a business account.  It is not a choice, but a requirement if you want to sell on the site,  Business sellers need to display their details on listings and have a legal 'any reason'returns policy.  Having a business account is not about having an advantage, it is about complying with Ebay rules and consumer law.

Business sellers do pay fees.  There are insertion fees and then Final Value fees. These are not hidden and all the details are in the link below.

You cannot change a business account to a private account.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/fees-business-sellers?id=4809&st=3&pos=2&q...

[awaywiththefaeriestirnanog]

It's about this account. 

My own account, not shown here, has been selling items I build as a businness for about 10 years now. And its listed as a private seller. You can tell me all you want about how "you should be a business account", but you've yet to give me any real reason why? What incentive is there for anyone to have a free business account over a private account? So far as I can see, this account is at a monetary disadvantage being a business account. Before I start listing hundreds of items on this account, I am tempted to just scrap it and open a private account. Why not? I'll be able to sell with less fees. Again, if the reply is "but it should be a business account", its actually offering no reason as to what the advantage is as a seller. 

[jckl1957]

As I said:

Having a business account is not about having an advantage, it is about complying with Ebay rules and consumer law.

[awaywiththefaeriestirnanog]

Well, on my own account (not this one) I guess I am not complying with the law - and its working out much, much better. I know countless others who do the same. I know some businesses who run several private accounts. There's not really much you can say other than "don't do that", but it still makes no sense. People will continue to just do this for as long as eBay makes it so that a business account literally makes no sense.

[tobiasd4]

Ebay report suspect accounts to HMRC. 

Who have started contacting unregistered businesses to pay tax owed.

Do not have a go at us, it is the law. 

[awaywiththefaeriestirnanog]

I'm not having a go at any of you at all. I am having a go at eBay and I am not sure why you are so defensive on their behalf. EBay is a huge multinational company - they will be just fine. Don't get upset and threaten me with HMRC because I might be losing the almighty eBay a few coins. Business owners are struggling to keep their shops open, to pay their bills, to literally live and survive. 

Again, I am not 'having a go' at anyone here. I am trying to make sense of eBays money grabbing tactics and how exactly they make sense. So far, its just been highlighted that there is no advantage, they don't make sense, and you just have to knuckle down, comply with the law, and give them more money than they need. 

[tobiasd4]

It doesn't matter what you, us or ebay think.

If you buy to sell, you must register as a business, it is the law.

If you look at discussion boards, there are a lot of unhappy genuine business sellers trying to compete against unregistered ones.

[awaywiththefaeriestirnanog]

On my other personal account, I have sold 10s of thousands of items for my business. I have worked out that if HMRC come after me for taxes, paying those taxes then will still work out way cheaper than eBay fees. 

I'm sorry you feel defensive on behalf of eBay, for some reason. I didn't mean to upset you personally. I am very sure there are lots of unhappy genuine business sellers out there, for many reasons. I am already one of them, with this account - as eBay is robbing me. You see it as some businesses on eBay are competing against unregistered ones - I see it as there are lots of businesses selling as private sellers because they are trying to literally stay alive. They are trying to put food on the table, keep their children safe, keep their shops open. That is what I care about. I care about real-world poverty and staying alive. I am sure eBay is very happy you care more about their massive capitalistic gain, and I hope they somehow reward you for your service to them. I am just here trying to make a living, and if eBay makes the 'legal' route, one that forces sellers to struggle to stay in business, then for me that is a huge criticism of eBay, not hard working people being forced into legal situations that make them struggle more by multinational companies. 

I was hoping someone would enlighten me with something like 'oh the more you list the more you sell the lower the fees become'. So far, everyone is confirming that the 'legal' way to do it, gives eBay more money, and makes the seller struggle more. Thanks for clearing that up though - appreciate it. 

Steve. 

[papso22]

Don't forget the 100% penalty for deliberately avoiding your tax liability.

And that HMRC employees also frequent these forums. 

[awaywiththefaeriestirnanog]

Do they? What has that got to do with this?? This is a business account. I am here asking about the pros and cons of business compared to private accounts.

Stop fear mongering with irrelevant threats. So far, all I've got from this forum is "there are no monetary advantages - just do it OR ELSE". 😂

[papso22]

How can it be scaremongering when you say this?

On my other personal account, I have sold 10s of thousands of items for my business. I have worked out that if HMRC come after me for taxes, paying those taxes then will still work out way cheaper than eBay fees. 

That is the account that will be of interest to HMRC.  They can either trace it by asking ebay, or by looking at your business contact details on the account you are posting with.

[awaywiththefaeriestirnanog]

And now you continue to tell me about how its all closing in on me. 

This is a business account, which is in no way associate with any of my personal accounts. It's not even on the same IP address or being used in the same locality. You are now telling me you are not scaremongering, but at the same time also telling me how HMRC will trace me, how they will ask ebay about me, how they will look at my contact details... are you quite finished?

Again, I came here asking what the advantages are that come with a business account. You are much, much more focused on tell me about all the bad things that will happen to me on a completely different account. This is a business account, this is the one I am asking about - you have failed to answer any of my questions several times over, instead further doubling down on random threats about not abiding the law. Do not panic on eBay's behalf, do not worry so much about taxes, this is a Business account and it is for a business. In future try to stay on topic rather than irrelevantly policing for others. Thank you. 

[jckl1957]

I would never like to admit in a public forum that I was not complying with the law.

I don't think I would be able to sleep at night if I was blatantly running a business, denying Ebay their fees and possibly denying buyers their rights under the Consumer Rights Act.

When Ebay ask you for your NINO (as will happen in the next 12 months) HMRC will link all of your selling activities and Ebay accounts.

Although you may be happy to 'lose the almighty Ebay a few coins', the tax man is not so easy to evade.

[tobiasd4]

"So what exactly is my advantage is having the free version of a Business Account?"

Simple answer is there is NO advantage, because correctly registering as a business is the law!

[papso22]

If you are trading as an individual all your accounts are associated by you being the same person. 

As for answering your questions, as you have a business account surely you are aware of how business fees work and you have repeatedly been told the legal position, which is the one we are prepared to advise on.

We can't tell you that selling on a business account is better for you financially, it won't be, but it will make you legal.  That's an 'advantage'. 

[awaywiththefaeriestirnanog]

Who's to say it was even true, perhaps I was trying to make a point? Who knows. Either way, I no longer even have a personal account anyway. 

I came here for help, and all I got was a load of irrelevant fearmongering about another account from another time. 

I've repeated more times than I would care, that I want to keep it relevant to THIS business account, and the advantages it has over a private account. Took a LONG time to get to "there are none". 

You guys sound like that one kid at the end of class who says to the teacher just as everyone is about to leave "But what about our homework?". 😂

So, the very VERY long winded, threat laiden conclusion to this post is "Abide by the law, use a business account, it has absolutely no advantages and you lose more money, but its the law so you just have to do it". 

Thats great guys, cheers! 

[awaywiththefaeriestirnanog]

Great summary. Ebay business account has zero advantage, it means you lose more money to eBay, but you have to do it simply because its the law. I get it now. I didn't need the threats. I just wanted to know the advantages. I now understand there are none. 

Cheers. 

[jckl1957]

You are incorrect.

Post 2, the first response to your question from me states:

' Having a business account is not about having an advantage, it is about complying with Ebay rules and consumer law.

[awaywiththefaeriestirnanog]

Cheers for that. 👏