Account closed because of a clever little ebayer!!

[bravo_six_11]

Hi all 🙂

ok so basically i did have an ebay account which was my first from when i was literally say 18/19.. i am a genuine guy, dont rip people off, dont do any scams or anything.. just a straight person buying what i need to or selling what i dont need.

So this one time, i can get exact dates as i dont have acess to the account anymore but i was selling an iphone.. which sold for i think was around the £500 mark... and when it sold there was a few postage options.. 1 of them being the 1st class tracked which was obviously the reasonable option as it was an iphone.. and the buyer didnt choose this he chose the free option which was an untracked option. Which immediately got me a little curious.. however he chose this and paid for the item. All good it seemed..

i chose to message the buyer and confirm that was the postage option he wanted.. which he said yes.

So off i go and post the item... mark it as dispatched and waited for my money from ebay. After 5days or so from the original sale date ebay release my money. happy days.

5 more days go by (10 in total from original sale date) and then the seller pops up and says he hasnt received the item, which i argue it has 100% been posted, you chose not to have tracked delivery to which ebay then step in and ask me for proof, which as dodgy as it sounds i now dont have the receipt...  considering its been 10days and ive been paid.

eBay favoured with the buyer and refunded him and then requested a refund from me. Which i am refusing to pay because i posted the phone!!

This was clealy a clever little scam from the buyer which i was shocked ebay sided with.

My account was many years old, all good positive feedback, no history of any issues or scams etc.

And eventually they closed the account after banning me from buying and selling anyway.

they are still chasing me to this day and now threatening with bayliff action etc.

What should i do? Whats your thoughts?

Cheers

Ellis

[plpmr]

"Whats your thoughts?"

You need to pay otherwise it usually means a court appearance.

Also, once eBay discover you broke their rules and opened a new account, this one, they will close it.

[red_magpie]

Was the phone sent using eBay's new simple delivery, or did you buy the postage yourself?

I doubt there is any option in simple delivery for the buyer to choose free postage without tracking.

If you posted it yourself, if you included an option for free postage that only means that the cost is included in the price. You, the seller, would still buy the postage and it would be up to you to use a tracked service to be covered by eBay's seller protection.

eBay's rule is absolutely clear, and has been for years, that unless the seller can provide tracking evidence of delivery they will have to refund a buyer who claims that it didn't arrive. To enforce this refund eBay would normally have taken it from the account you registered for this purpose. If you have prevented this eBay will have refunded your buyer themselves, and will now quite justifiably use debt collectors or legal action against you to recover the debt you owe them. You accepted all of this in the user agreement.

I'm sorry, but this isn't a case of a "clever little buyer". It seems to be you who has not read or understood how eBay works, or the obligtions you agreed to accept as a seller.

[bravo_six_11]

i did open another account to which they noticed and closed. I dont have an account of my own anymore.

Appreciate your reply, however court it will be. I am not paying for something i actually posted!

Cheers

Ellis

[bravo_six_11]

This whole transaction was over 5 years ago approx, was a long time ago anyhow.

The seller chose that option, there wasnt any free delivery options if i recall. 

At the end of the day if i did something incorrect regarding the listing and postage options then my hands are up to that, nothing would of been done incorrect on purpose.

However, when you look at it as a whole, its very clear what the seller done here. 

If it was my choice to not have gave the buyer tracked delivery when regardless of what was right or wrong, i wouldnt have an argument. But he chose untracked and confirmed this when i asked him.

I wouldnt be posting here about an account from a long time ago if i was actually in the wrong here and was a scammer. 

Appreciate the replies though.

Cheers

Ellis

[arkwebus · Accepted solution]

It's all water under the bridge of course but as others say it is up to the seller to use whatever postage service is appropriate [and for a £500 phone that would mean Royal Mail Special delivery I'd guess].   It does not matter what the buyer might "specify" as any risk goes on the seller/sender.  

You mention going to court and that would be the County Court but your problem there is exactly the same.  How can you "prove" [even on the balance of probabilities] that you posted a valuable item in such a way that it was delivered?   From the original post it would seem difficult to get much in the way of the documents; you seem to be relying on memory ...

If eBay does open a case in court then under no circumstances ignore them.  Gather all your documents [listing etc] and deal with the court as to their timescales.  Do not miss any deadlines or the court may simply find against you!   You need to go to any hearing; letters and the like are not enough you will need "evidence".

Bailiffs etc cannot physically enforce a debt until it has been to court.  I would guess that eBay has a legal department with established procedures as to how to deal with such cases in court. 

 @bravo_six_11 

[bravo_six_11]

Noted. Thanks @arkwebus 

Yeah im learning here that this is something im going to have to suck up and learn from, well already have learnt from. In all honesty, i now feel pretty stupid not forcing a tracked delivery.. although saying that i did keep the receipt as i always would.. just when ebay released the funds i threw it away as i pretty much assumed the transaction was complete. 10days to decided to say you havnt received the item is a long time considering the timescale was 3-5 days. 

Only reason i cannot give exact figures, times or dates is because i cant get onto the account. Think im going to have to start scrambling through emails the account was registered too to find the emails regarding that transaction.

Anyhow is what it is i guess, appreciated everyones replies. 

Cheers

[jckl1957]

I don't think anybody is suggesting you are a scammer.

However, by selling on the site you agree to all of the terms and conditions in the User Agreement.

Selling a phone worth that amount of money without any tracking was extremely unwise. If I sell anything for £10 or more, I always use a tracked service.

Ultimately, without tracking proving delivery, the buyer was entitled to a refund - from you.

Ebay has refunded the buyer and they are pursuing you for the money.

Time to gather your facts and evidence and seek legal advice.

At the very least, get advice on the potential repurcussions of having to say to mortgage providers etc. that you have been taken to court for a bad debt.

[bravo_six_11]

Hi @jckl1957 ,

yeah i hear what your saying as annoying as it is, and even tho i know i am in the right 😞 ...

But from all the replies its clear ebays t&c's are in black and white, and frustratingly its my fault as the seller regardless of how right i know i am. 

Mistake i wont ever make again thats for sure. 

Cheers

[papso22]

Have you considered that the buyer may not actually have received the item?

[bravo_six_11]

of course, but he never messaged back at all from the time he said he didnt want tracked delivery. Of course this is possible, but it was just so obvious the way it all happened.

If the buyer never received it, surely they would of messaged after the give expected delivery timeline asking where it was, especially when youve just parted with a substantial amount of money.

It is what it is, i am hands up to where i was or may have done wrong as a seller on my part, but like i said, it was just very obvious after it had all happened what the buyer had done. Id be very very suprised if i turned out to be wrong, and i would put my hands up and apologise sincerely if i was. 

We shall probly never know.

I am going to contact ebay tomorrow and see what options i have regarding the debt.

Cheers

[*vyolla*]

Buyers will always select the cheapest delivery method, given the choice, because they know that they're covered if they don't receive their item.

The risk is always on the sellers side, the tracking number to prove delivery is to protect them, not the buyer. 

[arkwebus]

It is - of course - just one person's view against another, particularly after so long.  

If a buyer does not receive something there is absolutely no need to contact a seller.  Indeed - in my view - absolutely no point.   What can a seller say? "I've posted it!"  The buyer must simply open a non receipt case which notifies the seller and eBay.  The seller then must prove delivery with the tracking.  Otherwise under the terms and conditions the buyer gets a refund

We have heard tales where a seller [when contacted] simply says "wait a bit longer" until the buyer runs out of time to open a case.  Or says something like "I cannot refund unless you close the case"! [Then doesn't of course].  As @jckl1957 says no one here thinks you are a scammer but eBay does have rules and you have fallen foul. 

If it does go to court eBay will need to issue a writ and also prove the debt.  I seem to recall that if you wish you [the defendant] can request a venue close to your home and you can - and must - request all the documents upon which they propose to rely to establish their debt.  It is a substantial amount and sadly I cannot see that eBay might drop it.  The fact that you did not understand eBay's requirements and processes is unlikely to get far in court.  As I said earlier eBay probably has a system.  Again as @jckl1957 says you are likely facing a County Court Judgement which will affect your credit ratings.  It may be that rather than go through the process eBay might offer payment by instalments    @bravo_six_11