The Linux Distro Thread (maybe)

[ej-solutions]

Thought I'd start this one off, rather than continue on another thread.

As a quick catch up for others:

Have a look at Unetbootin, as a means to try out different versions of Linux, without producing numerous coasters (unwanted CDs).
I haven't tried the method of installing to hard drive, only the USB flash drive method (so far).

---

Just skimming the surface

Opinions/guidance expressed are intended to benefit the reader (mostly) but no responsibility should be assumed for the accuracy and no warranty is implied/expressed or given - so eBay may pull this post

[willywallace]

Glad to have found a thread i can post some positive comments in as opposed to my complaints in the selling & buying sections. 🙂

I`ve been using Linux now for about 5Yr`s 4 months of the 5Yr`s 8 months i`ve been using computers(not counting the C64 as a kid)

I was a bit of a late starter you could say and it was only the sheer dread i felt at the prospect of my young daughters being let loose on the big bad Internet(as it seemed to me at the time) that got me determined to stay a few steps ahead of them.

In some ways they all wish now that i`d never bothered. 🙂

Needless to say i had a few months using that alternative OS before stumbling across Linux but i`ve been a happy user ever since. Predominantly *buntu based but i have dabbled around.

Not been so deep into the tinkering side the last year or so as i had during the first 3 but only because i`d because i never had the time............

Not the type to try convincing all the friends & family to switch but boy i wish they would at times.

[grumpy-cook]

Welcome on board WW, it's always good to have new people with an interest in this stuff.

[willywallace]

Cheers GC.

My own interst is all purely accidental. I never sat down at that first machine intending on becoming a bit of a geeky computer nerd in my spare time but thats exactly what happened....according to those who know me anyway. 🙂

[ej-solutions]

... a bit of a geeky computer nerd ...

Nah, enlightened user. 🙂

[willywallace]

Nah, enlightened user. 🙂

And after that first few months i had with that alternative OS....A delighted user too. 🙂

[grumpy-cook]

Commodore - Linux - really?

I found this interesting....

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_OS_Vision.aspx

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=06981

[otherego]

Following oxie's remarks elsewhere, I thought it might be fun to give Mint 12 RC (Lisa) a spin.

After a thoroughly frustrating experience trying to install/get it working on VBox, I Unetbootined it (hey, this is 2011 - no noun can't be verbed) to a 2GB flashdrive.

I'm typing this from that installation, plugged into a little Eee PC 901.

So far, so good. It's obvious that older hardware is going to become an increasing problem with newer distros, which is a shame. Still, the Eee is hardly state of the art, and with an Atom 1.6 GHz CPU and 2GB RAM is coping with the live session very happily indeed.

I'll try to attach a screenshot of resource use - limits to what can be achieved during a live session - but if it works, folk might like to see what resources it uses. (I do realise a live session is not 100% representative - RAM use actually seems to increase with installation sometimes.)

Messing about with Ubuntu 11.04 and .10 didn't really float my boat, but if GNOME 2 has to come to an end, I think Mint has come up with a more intuitive interpretation of the New Order.

Somehow, the little I've seen of GNOME 3 and Unity doesn't hugely appeal (perhaps they're better suited to touchscreens?) - Unity, especially, seemed harder work - at least one more click to find anything. I may be mistaken there, but that was the impression it left.

Lisa, on the other hand, says, "Not only can we make the interface intuitive and user-friendly, but we can give you two ways to do things - if you so wish."

Just generally more polished than pure Ubuntu, IMHO - and a little more attention to what the users might like rather than just what the developers think they should jolly well be getting used to, perhaps.

Bodes well for the next LTS (13???) - hopefully I'll be able to stick with Mint even on my older kit for a few years yet. Just not the old machines which manage no pretence of 3D graphic capability.

[oxieman]

Hi OE

Thought I would burn Lisa after cajoling informing you of 12 RC.

Installed earlier and found/used Gparted and think I have messed up the installation  😞 - now have two installations!

Anyway, I proceeded to clear the the old Mint11 - see screenshot [one performed on XP - *cough]. Also one showing download on updating my Graphics card].

You mentioned VB [Not Visual Basic or the other one :-D], I did download and wanted to have a play - yet another thing on my todo list.

Did notice an "Info Icon" stating a 'New version of update Mgr is avaiable'. I will possibly wait until a/the stable version is released before going too much further and just play about checking it's capabilities till then.

Have a little story to tell re-my findings on installing PCLinuxOS - have to be later.

Oxie...

PS- On Lisa now 😄

[otherego]

Oops - forgot to mention that my screenshot of the System Monitor above was taken with Firefox (one tab) and Writer (on another workspace) both running.

now have two installations! Intriguing. I await developments with interest. I'm not sure whether the screenshot of Disk Mangement's efforts shows one of the 9.5 GB partitions as used and the other as empty - perhaps you do only have one installation there. GParted might give a clearer indication of how much space has been used on each.

Out of curiosity, are you using the Windows bootloader to select Linux or XP on start?  I've yet to try it, since GRUB is so easy.

The downside of using GRUB in a dual-boot with MS, of course, occurs when the Linux partition is deleted. The first stage of GRUB (in the MBR) looks for the launch files - which by default resided on the Linux / partition and no longer exist, unless one did something clever while installing Linux.

This has been known to lead to remarks along the lines of, "Tut."

Easily resolved by bunging another Linux distro on the abandoned partition and letting it re-set up GRUB, or by running fixmbr on the XP partition. I'm sure I've also repaired it from a live CD (following googled instructions, of course) - but seem to remember that it was more straightforward with the older version of GRUB.

Might be talking complete hogwash, of course.

I found that Lisa's updates worked uneventfully - unlike Debian-based Mint XFCE, which I never got the hang of.

Might even be worth installing Lisa properly (one shouldn't anthropomorphise, but did you ever see an Eee PC look apprehensive?) My limited experience suggests that Mint RCs tend to be pretty close to finished, and that the final release can be achieved through a simple update rather than a full "upgrade" exercise.

For "working" computers, I prefer the LTS versions. Like Firefox, the others can be irritating with their short life-spans and needs for frequent replacement. On the other hand, the LTS versions seem to be awfully conservative about updating software. Mint 9 is still using OpenOffice rather than LibreOffice, for instance, and Firefox 3.6.xx. Irritating though I find FF's six-weekly replacements, I do think the current version is an improvement over 3.6.xx - certainly seems quicker on the PCLOS machines.

On which subject - I look forward to the story of oxie's experiences with PCLOS...

[oxieman]

Hi OE

Or anybody else - Just a quick post, will be on later hopefully.

From last nights messing about:-

-------

teddyboy@teddyboy-desktop /etc $ df -h
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda7             9.5G  2.3G  6.7G  26% /
udev                 1001M  4.0K 1001M   1% /dev
tmpfs                 403M  764K  403M   1% /run
none                  5.0M     0  5.0M   0% /run/lock
none                 1007M  620K 1007M   1% /run/shm
/dev/sda1              15G  6.4G  8.4G  44% /media/Foxconn_XP
teddyboy@teddyboy-desktop /etc $
-------

Do you like the Username, was teadybear - that was on Ubumtu :^O

The 2.1Gb is/was Sda8 on install.

I want to get VB working under Mint12 and reading up etc..

But not have to install XP into it - not sure if I can make an .iso of present installation to do that.

Oxie...

[oxieman]

OE

A few comments on your points:-

Your double CPU graph did confuse me.

The downside of using GRUB in a dual-boot with MS, of course, occurs when the Linux partition is deleted..... or by running fixmbr on the XP partition.
This has been known to lead to remarks along the lines of, "Tut."

Have done that OE, but more than a "Tut." Used a Scylla word 😄 Especially when I could not get into recovery console. My solution in the end [thought I was boogered] I found an old Win98SE boot floppy with fdisk - saved the day but made quite a strange noise and had to do a quick panic reset. On restart it said "new hardware found" or something similar.

My limited experience suggests that Mint RCs tend to be pretty close to finished, and that the final release can be achieved through a simple update rather than a full "upgrade" exercise.

That's nice to know but I might do a fresh install dependant how my "Playing" goes,  [VB within Lisa for XP] - still learning as I go - not keen on 'Wine' - yet to install additional packages, only have Gimp as yet.

For "working" computers, I prefer the LTS versions.

LTS - Had to Google for that - very much the rookie (Excuse the Americanism!  :^O ).

Oh dear, I even spelt 'teddybear' [teadybear] wrongly on last post...

Thanks for your advice again.

Oxie...

[otherego]

The double-CPU graph comes from my most modern computer - an Eee PC 901 (think they stopped making them in 2008.)

Its CPU does hyperthreading, and one day I shall actually figure out what that means. Interesting thing is that Mint (and XP's Task Manager) see it as two separate CPUs.

Seems to use less RAM than the same distro on an Eee PC 900, with a single-core/none hyperthreading CPU.

I wonder whether g-c or ej or someone could be persuaded to come up with a guide to VirtualBox? I mess around with it, but obviously get a great deal wrong. Still fun.

Synaptic proved (inadvertently, I hope) treacherous. I decided to try to update Guest Additions. It did so - but only after replacing my PUEL (I think...) VBox version with the true open source (OSE) version.

Greatly though I approve of open source, the other one seems easier - supports USB, for instance.

I've only once installed a more recent version of VBox than that available in Synaptic, and the experience was infuriating. I honestly forget the details, but the update proved an absolute lemon.

I've yet to try installing XP or later on VirtualBox due to licensing concerns. I assume that one could get away with using the OEM installation product ID from the computer once; the problem would come with my frequent deletions (some of them deliberate) of virtual machines, and efforts to reinstall.

As a result, I continue to dual-boot. (To be honest, I'm not convinced that any of my old machines is really up to running anything more recent than W2000 at the same time as Mint - the bottleneck with this particular desktop is the 2GHz P4 CPU rather than the "maxed out" 2GB of RAM.)

This means that when I can finally summon up the courage to boot into XP, it (and antiviruses and things) is months out of date. By the time I've updated things, I've usually forgotten why I wanted to boot into it.

And no, I've no idea why I still keep the Windows partitions. Partly curiosity, partly in case I find something that won't work in Linux (have yet to experiment with WINE, believe it or not), and partly, I fear, the Dark Forces Of Marketing - can't quite bring myself to commit binary cybercide on something so darned expensive.

Sorry about the LTS (long term support version) - I abhor "in" abbreviations, and try to avoid them. (Upset the CQ&A board ages ago by daring to suggest that some posters might not understand "S/R").

And leaving aside the teddyboy reference (as opposed to the ursine version) to oxie's past - still intrigued to know what happened with PCLOS...

[oxieman]

The double-CPU graph comes from my most modern computer...

Now unconfused on the double CPU graph.

come up with a guide to VirtualBox?

Would be nice, but have found/seen a couple after Googling - would take an age to do that.

From what I understand so far [and as you say], VB will nick require approx 512 of ram - I have recently purchased a 1GB stick to replace the 512 in my XP machine to bring it up to 2GB, so may change tack.

I added just two packages last night - gparted, to show some screenshots. Guess what the other one was - 'Wine' [a glutton for punishment].

I will continue to boot into XP as required - just to use my scanner [yet to investigate that one, driverwise].

(have yet to experiment with WINE....

I do believe only a few [mostly games] are listed on the 'wine site' as being compatible and will run. I can run two programmes thro' wine, IE and notepad - now that's a lot of help to me!!

abbreviations, and try to avoid them. (Upset the CQ&A board ages ago...

I bet you lost sleep over that then.

And leaving aside the teddyboy reference (as opposed to the ursine version) to oxie's past - still intrigued to know what happened with PCLOS...

Will let you know in a later post - might be to-night.

Screenshots, do you know what the little icon represents, in the partition column?

I don't think sd5a is used - I might try and merge sd5a into sda7 - might bugger it up unless it's used by an automounter - we will see!

Oxie...

[oxieman]

intrigued to know what happened with PCLOS...

You poss remember my first foray into Linux - Ubuntu. Grandson [*cough] gave me an 80Gb drive which turned out to be 120Gb.

When my son heard what I was doing he gave me a 40GB drive - ex PC from a boot sale - 50p!!

I placed XP on the first partition [gave it 15Gb] the other leaves 25 for Linux.

After installation of XP, had about 6Gb used, 8.6Gb free after updates and a few applications.
That's it, my base installallion, I can mess about investigate Linux, had FF, IE8 etc - plenty of room for other things, VB even.
Made Macrium Image.

Tried a magazine PCLinuxOS, but it was the Phoenix Edition - did not like it.

Downloaded iso for PCLinuxOS, Installed ok, had a play and checked XP partition, the bugger had nicked 6Gb from the XP Partition!
Left it at 8.7Gb, now that is arrogant software and it should have warned me.

I then padded out the XP to 12.Gb used and 1.92 free. Installed again and it used the 22 odd Gb it had.

I was not impressed and was not too keen and decided to try Mint 11.

I found this earlier in the week:-
"The PCLinuxOS Installer will automatically repartition any existing operating system to allow the minimum required space for PCLinuxOS installation".
It went on to say 15Gb should be sufficient.

Bar Humbug

Oxie...

[otherego]

Foruming on a Friday night again *sigh* - must be a symptom of middle age (ahem) or something.

Yet again, I'm reminded of my extraordinary talent when it comes to not learning things I play with constantly.

A minor one is those symbols - no idea - must find a suitable and up-to-date guide.

But I do like GParted - reasonably intuitive, and an easy way of getting lots of gen about my partitions. Difficult to accidentally do a mischief, too. Famous last word.

A more major area of ignorance of mine is the role of UUIDs in the labelling of partitions. As far as I can see, GRUB2 takes these awfully seriously, and gets the mutters if any vanish or change.

I recently deleted a swap partition, and soon found myself bored with what seemed like a dire warning at every start (something to do with a partition being Missing In Action, or something.) Still worked, though. Might be worth googling how to chance UUIDs manually, or something. (sudo update-grub usually seems to do a good job of bringing GRUB2 up to speed - I didn't think of that in the example mentioned, and was planning to install a different distro anyway. Not sure whether it would have taken care of the confusion.)

Scan-wise, I find that Simple Scan meets my limited needs. Most distros seem to have drivers that work with most common printers/scanners - but I know I had to do something to make the scanning bit work. If you can't find an easy way, post back and I'll see whether I can find the envelope on the back of which I scribbled the instructions. No promises! I think Simple Scan (try simple-scan) might be available in Synaptic. It appears in my Synaptic - but then it would, once installed...

Sod's Law. Your unused partition is the the left of the one you want to extend.

It would be feasible (I think) to delete sda5 and grow sda7 to the left. Growing partitions to the left takes for ever, though.

You'll also end up with strangely numbered partitions - not too serious, 'tho I think GRUB will irritate you by asking where the missing one has gone to on every start.

Interestingly, you also have two swap partitions. As far as I can see, this is quite unnecessary, even with two distros installed. They simply seem to latch on to whatever swap is available.

One of the nice things about Linux is how easy installations tend to be. Since you've not got round to updating Lisa yet (IIRC correctly), it would be simple to copy any limited data accumulated so far from your Lisa installation - then reinstall.

My own preference in your specific instance would be as follows. I'm sure there's a more scientific way of sorting out, but this is easy - as long as you don't mind reinstalling.

Decide what partitions you want, rather than leaving it to the automated installer. On relatively small drives, I believe there's merit in limiting partitions to root (/) - what Windows would call the system partition, I think; home (/home) for data and stuff; a suitable swap partition (at least the size of your RAM plus a few MB for luck if you plan to enable hibernation, otherwise, according to taste...)

On drive space of less than about 60GB, I don't even use separate / and /home partitions - too easy to either waste space, or to run out of space on / if you want to install lots later. So my most common scheme is two partitions - / (which includes everything except swap by default, if you don't specify other "mount points" on other partitions) and swap. You'll find as much argument over the optimal size of the latter as you will over the Windows page file - as far as I can see, the only important one involves Hibernation. If you want this feature, then Swap needs to be at least equal to RAM (plus a little for luck.)

Delete sda 5, 7 and the two swaps (8 and 6).

Using GParted on the live CD, set up your desired partitions (eg 20.5 GB Ext 4, 2.1GB swap - check the sums!)

During installation, select the manual partitioning option. I've not used Lisa's, and there are all sorts of variations - but the important thing is use your pre-planned partitions, setting the appropriate mount points - / (root) and swap in the example above.

(Depending on the partitioner used by the distro, this can be surprisingly irritating - they're not always as intuitive as they might be.)

A common one at the moment needs you to right-click on the appropriate partition, select something like "change" and from the ensuing dialogue box (work through the whole darned thing) tell it to use the partition as ext4 - even though you've already formatted it - or swap, or whatever.

After a bit of fiddling, easier done than said.

I suspect you're way ahead of me here, but you'll have noticed a couple of assumptions GParted makes.

a) Each drive can hold a maximum of four primary partitions. Linux, unlike Windows, can come to life from within a logical partition.

b) The partition scheme you show is typical (apologies if you did it all yourself - I'm assuming a degree of automation there.)

The extended partition is dev/sda2, as it is a primary partition. 3 and 4 are reserved for any other primary partitions, so the partitions within the extended partition will always start with dev(device)/sda5.

So I'd keep your extended partition, delete the logical partitions within it, set up an ext4 partition as / and one for swap (both within the extended partition), and install Lisa (or whatever) to the pre-formatted partitions.

Time for dinner and a spot of Dr Tennent's Golden Vitamin B supplement. Tonight was a gym night. If you are a Gary Larson fan, you'll be able to visualise OE at the gym. A portly person with specs who has been known to fall off an exercise bike.

Hope all that stuff above isn't totally redundant or confusing.

[oxieman]

Forgot two links:-

http://www.horneker.com/pclinuxos-disklayout.html

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/using-windows-xp-virtualbox-linux

Oxie...

[oxieman]

Crossed posts OE - You look at mine whilst I look at yours :^O

Oxie...

[otherego]

Amazing. I'm sure oxie's bah humbug (# 1179 at the moment, I think) wasn't there last night when I posted.

Definitely worth partitioning manually, if I'm not horribly mistaken.

I'll try to attach my current set-up, just for fun. As far as I know, each hard drive needs at least one primary and bootable partition. As long as Linux in use, the rest can live within an extended partition.

Wonder when I last booted into Windows? Seriously considering ditching it to create

more space now.

Trouble is, the drive that Mint lives on was very second hand when I bought it ages ago, and has not exactly lived a cosseted life subsequently.

Plague take rising hard drive costs - and it's an (expensive) IDE drive. Time to look into SATA adaptors, or to  stop being so darned sentimental and retire the poor thing. Totally irrationally, I really like this computer. (It's an old Dell GX260 "mini-tower"; when I first bought it, it had one 40 GB hard drive and 512 MB of RAM. It's taught me an awful lot.)

[grumpy-cook]

Just to make everybody feel inadequate -

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/item/24705-computing-prodigy-did-his/

[oxieman]

"At school, the teachers usually ask me if they have problems with the computers".

Ammendment to Irish Calculator joke required. :^O

No good me trying to sell him my VB 'Daniel Appleman' Windows API guide then, was going to ask if you had his Phone Number GC.

Oxie...