The Linux Distro Thread (maybe)

[ej-solutions]

Thought I'd start this one off, rather than continue on another thread.

As a quick catch up for others:

Have a look at Unetbootin, as a means to try out different versions of Linux, without producing numerous coasters (unwanted CDs).
I haven't tried the method of installing to hard drive, only the USB flash drive method (so far).

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[grumpy-cook]

Nice to see you EJ. I'm disappointed though that you had no amazing flash on insight for me about why I can't get Samba working.

It really is driving me to distraction. I am absolutely certain that I have smb.conf correct (although I have tried all sorts of variations, including copying from my other linux box which does work). I've stopped IPTables. I've scoured Google and looked in log files until I've gone cross-eyed. It's as though I've got ports blocked, but why and what eludes me.

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[otherego]

Typical. There I am, chatting away to some lady, and she starts screaming and runs off to some other bloke.

(Awaits sympathy. A look of deep worry and concern fails to cross all their faces.)

Scylla, quite a nice Unetbootin tutorial on their home page (knew I had it bookmarked somewhere):

http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/

If I can rediscover any other useful stuff, I'll post back.

Good to see ej back again!

[*scyllabub*]

OE, I messaged you last night because I'd failed to respond here to your golden heart :-x and couldn't bear to see yet another of my signatures in this thread with no-one else's in between 😉

I'm really scared of taking the hard drive out of this netbook before the warranty runs out - for one thing, there are 9 screws to be removed and then it has to be unclipped around the edge and it sounds really brittle. I have a 30gb USB stick for my next attempt :)

[otherego]

Hi, Scylla - sorry about that - I'm not as conscientious about checking my messages as I should be.

With a flash drive as big as that, I'd look seriously at a "persistent install."

One of the annoyances of a live CD/flash drive is that it doesn't save what you've done during a session. OK, you can save documents to another drive, but it's hard work.

This article looks interesting:

http://www.tuxradar.com/content/how-install-linux-usb-flash-drive

In fact, I'm inclined to give it a try once I've worked out just how to do it.

A couple of points:

If you actually install a distro to a flash drive, then it will probably only really work satisfactorily with the specific computer to which it was installed (hardware settings and all that.)

A full install to any drive can lead to a minor bother mentioned last night. The installer will look at your existing hard drive, decide you want to dual boot and let you install GRUB (Grand Unified Bootloader) to your hard drive's Master Boot Record. It will typically point the MBR to the other GRUB files offering boot options - and which is stored on the same drive (eg your flash drive) as your new distro.

This means that if you start your computer without the flash drive plugged in, you'll get an irritating error message saying that GRUB can't find its boot files (and therefore your hard drive installation - XP, or whatever you have.) Repairable, but tedious.

Additionally, a full install will write a swap file to your flash drive ("swap" being the Linux equivalent of the Windows "page file.") Flash drives don't really like the constant write/rewrites/reads that this involves, and won't last as long as they should.

So the answer seems to be a live CD type flash drive, but with the option to save any changes, documents and so on to the flash drive. It's worth the small delay every time it starts, waiting for it to re-detect hardware.

The other joy of this set-up would be that you can carry your flash drive with you and use it on any computer that will boot off a flash drive. Interesting possibilities for being able to use familiar settings/docs and the like on more than one machine.

Dream Linux offers a persistent install option on the live CD, but I found it rather unstable. It tended to persist hardware details from one computer to another - leading to a 7" Eee PC-type screen when I tried it on my 17" desktop.

But it looks as if it can be done with other distros, and I'm really sorely tempted to give it a go.

Scylla, if you have any joy with a persistent install to a flash drive, perhaps you could let us know how you did it? In the meantime, I'm going to do a little more reading, and give it a try, too. I don't know how durable the whole thing will prove, but really like the idea of being able to carry an operating system in my pocket, with all my documents and pictures and settings preserved on it no matter which computer I boot it on - if that's how it works...

Anyone else had any joy with a persistent install? It would be really useful to learn the details.

[*scyllabub*]

Just reading that Tuxradar article, OE, and it's put the wind up me - my USB stick is dirt cheap 😞 *Thinks* Nevertheless it's probably fine for practising on, and if I pass my proficiency test I'll buy a decent one :)

[*scyllabub*]

I used UNetbootin to install Puppy on USB stick, this time allowing UNetbooting to download and install the version in its menu rather than select the one I downloaded that's stored on my hard drive.

I have changed the boot menu to boot from USB+anything before any other options, but I cannot boot to this stick. It's the same as with the hard drive that I had connected via a USB cable:

"Media test failure. Check cable."

I have trawled forums, but they are all too advanced and discuss problems related to Puppy already being used, not those related to trying to get a glimpse of it X-( ?:|

[otherego]

Out of curiosity, could you try booting another computer off that flash drive - assuming you have another flash-drive friendly computer at hand?

A couple of other things which I've encountered on my own machines or in seeking answers:

a) Might it be worth re-checking your BIOS to see that booting from a USB flash-drive is enabled? (I gather you get into BIOS by tapping DEL during start - no idea whether you need to specify USB flash, floppy, or hard drive, though! - or just something like "USB"))

Alternatively, tap F11 lightly during start - I see that allows you to choose boot options - could just help if you try that with the flash drive plugged in.

b) For some reason, your computer might be struggling to recognise your flash drive as a bootable drive. It could simply be a dodgy flash drive - have you another you could try?

(I'd be inclined to use cheap low capacity drives for initial experiments - 1gb will do for most Unetbootin installs; 4gb should cover just about anything.)

c) I've no idea why, but I've had problems with Unetbootin and flash drives formatted with Linux-style extended file systems - seem to remember NTFS also flopped. It might be worth checking that your flash drive is formatted to FAT32. It almost certainly will be, if it's a smaller drive - but it occurs to me that your 32gb drive could just have been formatted to NTFS. If the flash drive you're using has any other file system, then try re-formatting it to FAT32, then try Unetbootin again.

It really seems strange that something as modern as your Advent should be so otherwise - which makes me hopeful that we're missing some simple, basic point! Might be worth trying the suggestions above (I'm sure you've already tried the BIOS stuff, but the different flash drive/FAT32 format for the flash drive could just help) before seeking more complex solutions.

[*scyllabub*]

A quick reply to a couple of elements of your last post, OE:

I set the boot order to (1) USB Hard Drive; (2) USB CD/DVD Drive; (3) USB Floppy 😮 ; (4) Hard Drive; (5) Network Drive... well something like that - I don't remember there being 5 options actually. Essentially, anything that began with USB I placed in front of my main hard drive. I got the same result whether with the flash drive or the 2.5" SATA drive connected via USB cable. The flash drive is formatted FAT32, the SATA is NTFS.

If I use a smaller flash drive that already has something on it but has more than 1gb free, will UNetbootin make a folder and keep Puppy separate without me preparing the drive in any way?

I'm elsewhere for a while now, see ya later :)

[otherego]

I also need to scuttle off - but I wonder whether there isn't something to do with the hardware (the netbook) itself that needs attention.

Might be worth searching their forums for problems booting off USB drives, without even mentioning Linux, in case there's a simple solution.

Other than checking that your smaller drive is formatted as FAT32, there's no preparation necessary so far as I'm aware.

Unetbootin will wipe any data off the flash drive as it makes its own preparations - simply a matter of remembering to copy anything you want to keep to another drive before starting.

I've no idea why it wipes data. If you view the contents of the drive after Unetbootin's done its thing, there always seems lots of free space - suspect it's something to do with making the drive bootable.

Off for a spot of real life - hope you continue to progress.

A little more Unetbootin gen here, if you've not already seen it:

http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unetbootin/wiki/guide

[ej-solutions]

Try reformatting the flash drive with "HP USB Format", then using Unetbootin again.

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[otherego]

That certainly looks worth a try - now you mention it, I'm sure I read about that somewhere.

For what it's worth, this was my evening's entertainment:

On the desktop, downloaded the Ubuntu 10.04 iso.

Using Unetbootin, installed this to a 1gb flash drive (already formatted to FAT 32.)

Booted the Eee PC from it - it ran fine.

Copied the Ubuntu iso from the desktop to another 1gb flash drive (not using Unetbootin - just copied it there) and plugged it into the EeePC. Plugged in a 4gb flash drive, formatted to FAT 32.

(The poor old Eee now had the Unetbootin-created live flash drive plugged in and running, the copy of the iso available on the second drive plugged in and last but not least, the empty 4gb flash drive plugged in. Which used up all three of its USB ports.)

After some fiddling around, persuaded the live flash drive to let me create another, but persistent, bootable flash drive - along the lines shown here:

http://www.howtoforge.com/easy-way-to-create-bootable-ubuntu-usb-pendrive

Using the copy of the Ubuntu iso on the second flash drive (are you all following this?) it turned the 4gb flash drive into another live flash drive - but with about 3gb of storage space available - see the link above for how tis done.

I shut the Eee PC down, and removed all but the 4gb drive - then restarted, booting from that. Quite the slowest boot I've seen in ages - eventually it gets to a live-CD type screen asking whether you want to install Ubuntu 10.04, or try it out. Trick here is to tell it to try it out, then go and make a cup of coffee.

After several more minutes, Ubuntu is up and running in all its purple glory.

I set up all my usual preferences in Firefox and added the usual add-ons, and played a little with Open Office Writer - including telling it that I preferred UK English.

Throughout all this, speed was really not bad at all - which surprised me after the marathon boot-up. It seemed to detect hardware with no difficulties, accommodating the Eee's 7" screen as effectively as its native Xandros does.

I shut the Eee down, and booted the desktop from the 4gb flash drive. So far, so good. The same unbelievably slow start, but all the changes I'd made on the Eee seem to have persisted. It's coping happily with the 17" non-widescreen monitor, too. I've not tried any sound yet (no speakers on this; sound worked fine on the Eee).

It raises the intriguing possibility of being able to work with a variety of computers, as long as they are all capable of booting off a flash drive, without losing any of your work/play/settings. And since it's essentially a live CD/drive, it re-detects hardware on every computer.

The drawbacks I've encountered so far seem to be:

Security is iffy - just as with a live CD, there is no need to actually enter root or super-user passwords at any stage;

Start-up and shut down take ages. This might just be a slow flash drive - yet the speed once it's actually running is fine, both on the Eee PC (900mhz CPU underclocked to 650mhz; 512mb RAM) and the desktop (2ghz CPU, 1gb RAM);

The persistent install seems to include a small swap partition - not ideal with a flash drive. If I continue to play with this, it might be worth trying to do something about that - bit late in the evening now. Indeed, it might be worth looking at any avoidable read/writes if one plans to use this sort of set-up seriously.

So - hasn't solved any of Scylla's problems, but an indication of what can be done when technology cooperates! And to be honest, a fun evening.

Early-ish start tomorrow, so time to shut down...

[*scyllabub*]

I used the HP tool version 2.1.8 - there should be 2.2.3 and 2.2.4 somewhere but I kept coming up against WoT warnings when I tried to download them.

Still can't boot, waited 8 minutes with a blinking cursor all alone in the top-left corner.

The resurrected MSI Wind forums (they had closed down, don't know Ins & Outs) don't have obvious help for this "issue", but I am going to have another root around there.

[*scyllabub*]

Tried the USB flash drive on Asus G1Sn-AK014C - no dice. I set the boot sequence to (1) Removable Drive on that one.

[grumpy-cook]

Interesting experiment OE, I may have to have a go myself.

Scylla, I'm not sure why it isn't working for you. The only thing I can think of, and it's a bit unlikely, is that some PCs will only boot from a certain usb port (usually the first in port order) - have you tried a different port?

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[grumpy-cook]

I have finally got somewhere with my networking on PCLinuxOS. It all revolved around a conf file I've never heard of - /etc/nsswitch.conf.

I discovered yesterday that I could access my Windows shares using Konqueror (and Firefox) by IP address (e.g. smb://192.168.0.200). This led me to believe that there was a problem in resolving the hostnames. Some Google searching then led me to this conf file which has a line in it something like this (exactly like this in my case) -
hosts: files nis dns wins
Apparently the order here is important. The solution was to change the order to put wins before dns and nis -
hosts: files wins dns nis
As soon as I had made this change I was able to navigate via network in the file manager and the workgroup no longer timed out and I could see and access shares on the Windows boxes.

Now I just need to sort out why I'm getting access denied FROM my Windows boxes to Samba and I've cracked it.

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[*scyllabub*]

I will try various sockets, thanks Grumps.

[otherego]

Great - just tried to send a post, and NoScript murdered it (it was taking ages to go - and NoScript thought it had found a XSS attack - always happens if I try to sign in from one of the really slow old computers, too.)

Scylla, just a thought - perhaps you could try a different flash drive, in case there's some sort of a problem with the present one's boot sector or something.

Additionally, it might be worth trying a different distro. One of the Ubuntu variants would stand a good chance of success - Mint remains my favourite.

I'd be inclined to download the iso to your computer's hard drive, rather than letting Unetbootin do it - I installed Unetbootin to this machine's Windows 2000 partition, and it took eighty minutes to download Puppy. Even for my connection, that's bad - I would expect to be most of the way through a much larger distro in that time.

When you come to use Unetbootin to produce the live flash drive, it's easy to point it to the stored iso.

So - a different distro and a different flash drive could just achieve the desired effect.

Good luck, anyway. It can be an infuriating pursuit, but also a very rewarding one.

[grumpy-cook]

Just a bit more on my networking saga. I solved it entirely yesterday. There are many ways to skin a cat and the smb.conf is no exception. It can get very complicated if you let it, so I started from scratch and simplified it considerably, using only an editor to put the conf together, rather than the hash of PCLos control centre, SWAT and Webmin. It worked straight away, both ways.

30 mins later, in a rush of over-confidence, I decided to move my /home. That's the last I saw of the whole installation - buggered it beyond redemption, even though I had backed it up. So I finished up reinstalling from scratch. Sigh!

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[*scyllabub*]

With my first attempt at Puppy I downloaded it to my XP hard drive and copied/installed (whatever) it onto the flash drive with UNetbootin. When that didn't work I allowed UNetbootin to download and install it. I can't achieve boot either on XP netbook or W7 notebook. So those 2 options are duds.

I've been having my mind blown on Puppy forums overnight 😮 I've just asked Bro to see if his HP XP Pro notebook will boot from it. Next thing will be to try Mint - I remember liking the interface but that was a feminine thing, I think 😉

Grumps, your travails are so reassuring :^O

[*scyllabub*]

No luck on Bro's HP XP notebook.

On a Puppy forum last night I saw someone chip in with the advice "Use FAT16". But when I go to format this 32gb stick I have no choice but FAT32.

(Aside: Just thinking, given that this netbook has no optical drive I have the recovery backup on a USB flash drive - what if that won't boot also? 😮 )

I'm going to format and try Mint now :)