The Linux Distro Thread (maybe)

[ej-solutions]

Thought I'd start this one off, rather than continue on another thread.

As a quick catch up for others:

Have a look at Unetbootin, as a means to try out different versions of Linux, without producing numerous coasters (unwanted CDs).
I haven't tried the method of installing to hard drive, only the USB flash drive method (so far).

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Just skimming the surface

Opinions/guidance expressed are intended to benefit the reader (mostly) but no responsibility should be assumed for the accuracy and no warranty is implied/expressed or given - so eBay may pull this post

[grumpy-cook]

One for OE to look at for his nostalgia systems -

http://www.papuglinux.net/

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[ej-solutions]

Gave Papug a quick try in a VM.
Hmmm... no software installation method in the menus and uses Shiretoko (the beta version of Firefox 3.5) so hasn't been upgraded too recently. It crashed in 128Mb RAM.

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[grumpy-cook]

You have to spoil all my fun EJ. :-(

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[ej-solutions]

Sorry, G-C (said in a Reggie Perrin tone)

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[otherego]

128mb of ram! What about the 48mb Toshiba?

Seriously - thanks for that. Definitely on the list.

[otherego]

The Chuck Norris thread at least a)got me to sort out my router's password and change the default SSID and b)introduced me to a strange cult figure that had totally escaped my notice.

More seriously, though, it got me wondering again about Linux security. That particular virus was designed specifically to target Linux systems - albeit by taking advantage of weak/default passwords.

It's a horrible thought, but do we need to start considering real-time/on-access antivirus protection for Linux systems? I sincerely hope not, as I already achieve far more on a Linux than a windows machine, simply through not sharing resources with security software and not having to wait for updates to complete.

There seems to be very little available as far as free anti-virus apps for Linux goes. Clam is essentially an on-demand scanner - and can anyone confirm whether it's purely signature based, or does it also include a heuristic element now?

This suggests that Clam is moving into the on-access field; blowed if I can understand it! More reading this evening...

http://www.clamav.net/download/third-party-tools/3rdparty-fs/

Avast, Avira and AVG offer free Linux AV but, as far as I can make out, these are all on-demand scanners, offering no real-time protection against malware attack.

A few more Linux AV offerings here:

http://www.linux.org/apps/all/System/Anti-Virus.html

The main emphasis seems to be on scanning emails so that viruses ignored by Linux systems are not allowed to be forwarded to Windows computers - which would respond rather more rewardingly.

Commercial outfits offer on-access protection - Kaspersky and Eset are two I've come across. No idea what they cost, and I get so cross with sites that coyly hide the prices that I've not bothered looking further.

Ethics aside, part of the appeal of many Linux distros is their affordability - as in zero cost other than some bandwidth and a recordable CD - and I suspect it would take an awful long time for private individuals to take any interest in paid-for protection.

I'll try to do a little more googling over the next couple of days, but it would be interesting to hear comments.

Do we need to start looking at on-access/full time anti-virus protection for our Linux systems (talking personal computers/workstations rather than servers connecting to fragile windows systems), or can we still feel reasonably secure by simply not running as root except when absolutely unavoidable?

Are there any effective full-time Linux AVs (as opposed to on-demand scanners) - and if so, does anyone know of any free ones - and how they feature resource-hoggery-wise?

And last but not least - where do two of my favourite Linux incarnations stand security-wise - the Linux Live CD, many of which effectively run as root, and Puppy Linux, ditto?

[otherego]

Interesting read here for those of us (eg me) whose understanding of Linux's security advantage is still limited:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/22/security_report_windows_vs_linux/

It's old, but I found it most illuminating - quite a long article.

Back to real life for a while - still haven't established whether Linux is still as safe as I hope it is! More googling in due course, I think.

[grumpy-cook]

I thought of you earlier OE, when I saw this -

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=05933

I'm looking forward to the first release of OtherEgoNux - a lightweight Linux distro for the Toughbook.

:-p

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[otherego]

I wish!

But that Linux From Scratch would certainly be a useful learning experience - if I could hack it.

(Already got a sore head browsing the contents section...)

[grumpy-cook]

I'm quite taken with this -

http://www.elivecd.org/

I'm just trying it as a livecd from the iso in vbox at the moment, but initial impressions are very good.

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[otherego]

That looks very interesting indeed.

I think I'll dig the Toughbook out again this weekend and mess around a little.

[otherego]

The Toughbook doesn't seem to like Elive, which is odd - I eventually got the old-kernel live CD working, but it must have taken over twenty minutes to load up - then died (dropped to a command line shell) when I tried to open something in a new tab in Iceweasel.

Looks as if one has to pay for it on installation, too. Tricky one, that. I appreciate the value of financially supporting distros. On the other hand, it looks as if I'm going to have to be a little careful financially for the foreseeable future - resulting in serious stinginess in these matters. Even if I were gainfully employed in some reasonable-paying post, I'd soon go through a lot of moolah just trying different distros out - probably not the only one, either.

Still, may give the live CD another look on the morrow. Might boot faster without the aid of the operator's Friday night beverages! (Or on a slightly livelier machine.)

[otherego]

(Waits for sensible advice to spend Friday night beverage money on software instead.)

[grumpy-cook]

Apologies OE. I have been playing with the livecd and had (I thought) thoroughly looked over their site. I didn't see anything about having to pay for an installed version. Now you've told me I have found it, although it is rather well tucked away.

No, you'll get no encouragement from me to pay for this. It's a nice distro, but they are going against the open source concept imo by doing this - and this after bragging about it being open source on the home page. I also think it is counterintuitive, because people will do what I'm going to do and turn to another properly open source distro rather than pay (even if it's only $5), when they probably would have made more in donations and achieved wider usage by being truly open source and honest.

One last annoyance - I went there originally because of Distro Watch's announcement of the new release, yet that announcement made no mention of paying for it either.

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[otherego]

Apologies most definitely not required, g-c. It's an interesting distro. I see the Distrowatch page dealing with Elive seems to think that it's free in all its versions:

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=elive

- it was only browsing the elive site while downloading the live CDs that I came across the need to pay.

And at least they let you try the distro (live CD) before you buy - a concept which seems to have eluded certain large software providers.

I wonder whether the most important element of open source software is the "free as in free speech" as opposed to "free as in free beer" philosophy. And I suppose even the most altruistic software developer has to eat occasionally.

Presumably a few of the major distros rely on corporate backing to cover development, support, hosting and so on. For example, Canonical seems to provide the financial backing that keeps Ubuntu/Mint/various derivatives so popular and up-to-date - it's just lucky for us that they don't make their money directly from the sale of the software.

Not too sure where they make their billions - I know they make a lot out of paid support for businesses and big organisations. Mark Shuttleworth seems to be the Open Source community's answer to M$'s Bill Gates - a successful businessman who's helped bring computing to the masses, while developing a successful business in the process. The difference is that he's actively helped offer the consumer choice instead of trying to pretend that there's no viable alternative to his product- and without trying to monitor the user and nag him in the process. Which is not intended to belittle MS's enormous contribution, as Truff has pointed out, in making computing accessible to the masses.

Mepis remains one of my favourites, yet it's relatively aggressive in seeking payment (at the end of the installation, it says something along the lines of "if you got this as a free CD or download, now go to the Mepis shop and pay for it" - not enforced, by any means, but rather more than just a hint.) It also has quite the most unfriendly user-agreement I've encountered in a Linux distro, with its references to "theft of goods" and so on.

Yet it, and Antix, have incredibly friendly and helpful communities.

Presumably the free (as in free beer) Mandriva offering is supported by their commercial undertakings.

OpenOffice.org got where it is through the patronage of Sun Microsystems (hope I've got that right!) - I just hope the new owners (Oracle, I think) feel the same way.

And lots of people sell Linux CDs on eBay. Good luck to them - even if producing a beautifully printed CD and selling it for a couple of quid in a free postage category seems a lot of work for small reward.

I just remain immensely grateful to all the developers who do offer their masterpieces free of charge. And I continue take unashamed advantage of their offerings, and of their support forums, whilst applauding their generosity, and the role they play in making people like me more aware of just what this computing stuff is all about, and how to use it to my benefit as well as that of large organisations. They share the secrets...

One last annoyance - I went there originally because of Distro Watch's announcement of the new release, yet that announcement made no mention of paying for it either.


I have to agree wholeheartedly. Not specifically with reference to the magnificent Distrowatch - we're all entitled to make errors.

I don't think that I can morally object to the existence of paid-for distros, but I do feel the open source ethos demands more openness over the fact that money is going to be requested. Leading one to this discovery late in the proceedings smacks rather of underhand marketing techniques.

Goodness, far too much thinking for a Saturday. But that's part of the beauty of open source. Even people like me with absolutely no aptitude in this fascinating field get to exercise their brains, whilst getting the necessary assistance from a motivated an highly ethical on-line community.

Good stuff!

[grumpy-cook]

EJ, if you're about, have you ever tried or looked at Gentoo? It looks interesting and I'd like to give it a try, but it's a big (2.5Gb) download for the livedvd. There seems to be a dearth of reviews of any depth.

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[ej-solutions]

Gentoo is/used to be a popular distro. It's now been too long since I last looked at it, to give an informed up-to-date opinion. I do remember it "showed promise".
[It runs on my old Xbox, as Gentoox]

Goes off to have a look and I've got a dormant partition at the moment, if the distro will play ball with unetbootin ;)

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[grumpy-cook]

Cheers EJ.

I want a full report of course. ?:|

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[ej-solutions]

2.5Gb!!! Hey bloatware, or what?! I'll wait until I've got a spare 30mins to download (and free off some disc space).

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[otherego]

a spare 30mins to download - show off! Takes me about eighty minutes to download a 700mb one-cd distro.

One of the joys of Linux is not worrying too much about viruses. Thought I'd treat the long-suffering desktop to a ClamAV scan. Blow me, but it's found one so far (2 hours so far to get to 34% - a speed demon it ain't.) (About 55gb used out of the partition - which I think is about 120 gb.)

Of course, whether a virus actually matters is debatable. I'll be interested to find out which file is harbouring it, though, to try to avoid passing it along to a Windoze machine.

I should really scan for rootkits, I suppose. Trouble is, I understand one needs to look up whatever's found in case of false positives. Sigh.

I'll overcome inertia in due course...