10-04-2024 3:55 PM
With regards the long running Q&As about trying to report business sellers on private
accounts, we now have 2 answers. Who is right and who is wrong
Anita - You can report these sellers here (link) > select 'The seller has violated one of eBay’s policies' > Continue. The report goes to our Trust & safety team for a review.
Dave - Unfortunately there isn't an option for that exact topic
Looking at the options, how difficult would it be to add Business seller avoiding fees and reducing buyer rights on a private account.
Give me access to the editing pages and should take me a couple of minutes
BTW - Other in the options, I guess means not important
02-10-2024 10:44 AM
The problem of working out who is trading and who isn't is the same problem HMRC are going to have to determine too.
The first check is simple, multiples of New items that once sold get refreshed time and time again, no genuine private seller will be in that position.
But with secondhand goods you have to determine who just is clearing out vs who is buying stuff at car boots, charity shops or wholesale with intent to resell for profit.
The obvious thing for me is that with the genuine private house clearance, these are one-time sales and even if there are multiples as these sell the listing numbers will gradually diminish over a few months and not be replenished.
Any private seller will likely have a binge clearout maybe before and after Christmas or a birthday but once those items are gone it's likely the account will go quiet whereas the trader will generally tend to be more consistent.
But then you have collectors. This is a real grey area as on first glance they can be selling off large quantities of same/similar as their collection refreshes/refines. Some collectors are trading of course be it for profit or otherwise but many are absolutely not and it's those that will likely be caught out with any kind of enforced business account upgrade.
Apart from collectors, I think the majority of genuine private sellers would struggle to sell more than 300/400 items per year but I'm sure someone will disagree.
On my private account I've sold things for my wife, kids, parents, in-laws and cleared my grandparents house.
Total sales is something like 2500 items over a 17 year period, which included a large collection of automotive memorabilia (mags, books, brochures, manuals etc.) of around 1000 items that I accumulated over a 20 year period which took nearly 3 years to sell.
If eBay had say a 300 item per year limit and I thought I would exceed it I could have just opened other accounts in the wife and kids names I guess.
02-10-2024 12:12 PM
I mean, prove they are not a business by selling 100 items of the same item which a private seller would never have (For example, I had seen a private seller selling do not bend envelopes, they had sold over 100+ individual sales at 100-5000 qtys). Along with other packing supplies, what private seller has that many?
Or activities that would be considered "business like" creating graphic vinyl for cars to sell for profit (One of my fields I sell in. I see a lot of graphic design companies, who are trading as private sellers)
I do not mean the odd Teenage Ninja Turtle collection you had 30 years ago or a collection of stamps you grandfather passed on.
02-10-2024 12:40 PM - edited 02-10-2024 12:41 PM
The grey area is an issue but you either pick having accounts trading illegally or make a select few give extra rights to consumers and pay to use the site. Yes they might not wish to pay but if you are selling over a high number either value or items then should you be getting it free anyway, seriously who can sell 150 (picked a random number) items a month every month and still deny being a business, they may say its a hobby but so are trainers for me but I'm a business.
eBay dont need to prove people are a business, just they think there may well be, if somebody can prove they are not a business then that should give them a green flag on eBay but neither are possible tbh.
02-10-2024 1:11 PM
Just trying to think outside of the box here - and definitely I have not thought this through - just brainstorming... because it is interesting how ebay should manage the private/business issue fairly...
... so what if private sellers had to use auction format? No buy-it-nows for private sellers. And whatever the price they chose it would dimish by 5% every month - which ebay would automate when it auto relists every month. There would be no end listing function. Basically all new listings have to be made from scratch - photo reloaded, items specifics filled in etc. No sell similar either.
The idea being private sellers should want rid, right? So will be happy to let ebay help them find a price. And it is enticing for buyers to watch and know the price will decline before pouncing... but if they pounce - the price might set the auction off... and the private seller get a decent price after all...
But for private-business sellers? Well, they'll suddenly find themselves with a hell of a lot of extra work.
ANd for genuine business sellers? Real boost as we pick up all of the buyers who want to buy-it-now.
Thoughts? Feel free to crush me; like I say, just been brooding on this...
02-10-2024 1:14 PM
Obviously the idea is up for tweaking!
Fior instance, private sellers could maybe choose to let price decline by a certain % on a daily, weekly or monthly basis...
02-10-2024 2:01 PM
Firstly, private sellers should not be allowed multi-variation listings or shops, that would be a start. But I think cutting the number of listings at any one time to say 100 would also make sence. As they sell they can go back up but a fixed maximum I think would be a good idea.
02-10-2024 2:02 PM
Don't want to rain on your parade but wasn't that actually a thing a few years ago automated price drop by 5% on BIN listings at set intervals ?
Jo
02-10-2024 2:17 PM
You could just not send if somebody was forced to sell for 50% what they listed it for. Only auctions could work though and just let them list at whatever price they want. No private account should be allowed variation listings though that should be a hard rule.
02-10-2024 2:30 PM
@555njp wrote:Firstly, private sellers should not be allowed multi-variation listings or shops, that would be a start. But I think cutting the number of listings at any one time to say 100 would also make sence. As they sell they can go back up but a fixed maximum I think would be a good idea.
I might agree - but I thought we were tryin to address the fact of unfairness to genuine private sellers inheriting 1000s of collectibles and only shops and more than a 100 listed making sense...
02-10-2024 2:31 PM
@bojangled wrote:Don't want to rain on your parade but wasn't that actually a thing a few years ago automated price drop by 5% on BIN listings at set intervals ?
Jo
Not to my knowledge... are you confusing with BIN having to be at least 20% above auction start?
02-10-2024 2:33 PM
@pg_kicks wrote:You could just not send if somebody was forced to sell for 50% what they listed it for. Only auctions could work though and just let them list at whatever price they want. No private account should be allowed variation listings though that should be a hard rule.
I thought of that... some would end up with hundreds of negatives within weeks and lose all visibility. Plus the comments in fb (did't like price so didnt send) would stop anyone bothering....
02-10-2024 4:15 PM
@sheba-knows-best no I actually think it was about 15 years, very different marketplace then. But I see what you mean if the buyer really wants rid then the price will eventually find the right level.
02-10-2024 4:17 PM
Yeah, I'd love it if the site showed items from accounts that performed well not just who paid the most, imagine that eh.
Something needs to be done though as a few extra postage credits and a 1 to 1 telephone call are really not the benefits that any business was hoping, probably expecting as we know eBay think so little of us.
02-10-2024 4:27 PM
Clicked on three different "private sellers" in a row selling similar items to myself. All 3 selling multiples of same items with tags on, one had 60 Adidas Retro T-shirts in 5 different colours and had sold 73 already, brand new with tag on. His name even had trading in it 😂 I've reported them using the link mentioned in the community chat thing today, going to keep eye on it and see if anything happens to them.
02-10-2024 4:35 PM
Only business sellers should be able to list items as new.
As soon as private sellers buy something, it becomes 2nd hand and they should only be able to sell it as 2nd hand.
02-10-2024 4:52 PM - edited 02-10-2024 4:54 PM
@sheba-knows-best wrote:
@555njp wrote:Firstly, private sellers should not be allowed multi-variation listings or shops, that would be a start. But I think cutting the number of listings at any one time to say 100 would also make sence. As they sell they can go back up but a fixed maximum I think would be a good idea.
I might agree - but I thought we were tryin to address the fact of unfairness to genuine private sellers inheriting 1000s of collectibles and only shops and more than a 100 listed making sense...
We are and that's just a handful of people. However it's addressed, someone will fall through the slats and it will always be collectors.
Most inheritors just want to clear the house ASAP as that's where the money is. Collections if not wanted by family often get sold to a specialist as a job lot, go to charity or end up in a skip!
Anyone with time or inclination could still shift the 1000s of collectibles, just slowly.
If they went to a B&M auction house, chances are they'd be grouped into larger lots.
As I said, list the first 100, then keep topping up. Often with collectibles you don't want to flood the market anyway. Maybe allow 200? 300? I don't know.
04-10-2024 4:53 PM
Please keep us posted if ebay actually do anything about them, I had no luck with the ones i reported🙄
05-10-2024 9:06 AM
Just continuing with @sheba-knows-best 's brainstorming, give business sellers promoted listings @ 2% (or variation % depending on shop size or other account value) with no fee and option to increase %.
Let the private sellers pay for promotion, it's been made quite obvious that promoted listings are are a money maker for eBay.
Probably a flaw in my suggestion.
Jo
05-10-2024 9:50 AM
@bojangled wrote:Just continuing with @sheba-knows-best 's brainstorming, give business sellers promoted listings @ 2% (or variation % depending on shop size or other account value) with no fee and option to increase %.
Let the private sellers pay for promotion, it's been made quite obvious that promoted listings are are a money maker for eBay.
Probably a flaw in my suggestion.
Jo
No flaw, Jo... private sellers already do pay for PL. A neighbour of mine is a private-business seller. She reckons she can never sell without PL of about 12%.
I have long argued that ebay (Feebay? Greedbay?) would not have allowed private sellers 80% off fees for as long at it did without some comeback. I believe lots of them were/are using PL. I believe the algorithm has long been taking into account total fees for visibility. ie:
private 20%offFVF + 12%PL
vs
business @12%FVF + 2%PL
Not so dissimilar, right?
BUT just to be clear - I do agree, some private/business sellers are getting away with murder and not needing to use such high PL... the question is how to sinle them out. Hence the brainstorming... thanks...
05-10-2024 10:09 AM
Shouldn't need to promote at all.
You pay your fees, list your items and they should be fully visible to all (level playing field).
I've said this on other threads: my father in law has run a full time reasonable size business on here for over 20 years. Doesn't bother with a shop and has never promoted. Yes he gets the odd day or two when he doesn't sell but frankly the constant "kerching" of his phone most days is embarrassing!
I stopped all promotions just over a year ago and it made absolutely no difference to sales, which until the end of August were actually slightly up on the preceding year, however I do operate a much smaller business.
I would say most buyers are smart enough to sort by price, even if the promos are plastered all over the item they are viewing.
The only time unpromoted listings lose out is when eBay complete excludes them from search.
My unpromoted items are usually on the top page one without promoting them and right at the top if sorted by price.
Perhaps eBay could unofficially promote business listings higher up the search? Like they did years ago if you had a shop and 100% positive feedback.
But, if eBay want this free listing thing to be a success and bring more buyers/sellers in then of course it has to work for them.
Any advantage they give us small businesses will likely negate that.