Should legitimate businesses just move to a new private account ?

[howmuchtobid]

Ebay is clearly allowing businesses to trade from private accounts, we are all seeing it, Ebay is doing nothing about it.

So to be able to compete I guess moving to a private account is the only option for many.

[british-ceramics-and-paintings]

They are already losing lots of revenue on this however they are doing next to nothing about it, talk is cheap, there is very little visible action being taken.

They are losing business sellers left, right and centre and many of those who remain will have next to zero goodwill towards Ebay.

They seem intent on competing with Vinted regardless of the damage it causes, beyond that I don't see any kind of viable plan.

[dch2112011]

Given that ebay before the change to no fees were already discounting private seller fees by 80% the extra discount is not so much  - I believe there is an ulterior motive - why would you need to increase member numbers and  increase the volume of sales in such a drastic way ?

ebay say it increases sales for business users ?  Members speculate at putting vinted out of business ? I believe it is to attract  advertisers or investors ?  It could even be the start of splitting the platform ?

[dch2112011]

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@ett1954 wrote:

"ebay and others have openly stated that they are not distributors and have refused to be held responsible for members sales except where they are already legally forced .... "

eBay do not even follow this requirement - It takes less than 2 minutes to find numerous 'private' sellers selling foodstuffs breaking numerous Food Safety Authority laws in addition to eBays own policies which stipulate that you have to be a business seller to sell food.

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I am not disagreeing with you but from what I can find in the public domain - ebay amongst others when quizzed about these problems have taken the stance that because they are not legally responsible for the listings / sales it is not their responsibility to enforce the laws and therefore any enforcement action has to be taken against the individual seller by the appropriate authorities.

This has been begrudgingly accepted because the laws currently in force do not clearly define ebay's role as a platform, a change in the laws is needed and will come but when ? 

Where ebay has clear legal responsibiity they act to enforce the law. 

It seems that Trading Standards - ebay and the government are at the proverbial stalemate with ebay offering small concessions, Trading standards unable to police the volume of internet sellers on all the platforms and the government trying to revise the laws.

In the meantime ebay are free to wash their hands of the problem - trading standards are left not able to cope and nothing much will change until all the new laws come into effect 

The only thing that could change the situation would be if ebay took the lead and acted responsibly off their own back but unless this action was a gain for ebay it may not be a top priority - although something is afoot looking at the very little we can piece together

[secularsid]

I think the eBay notion that they have no privity is one long held and fundamentally wrong...  someone needs to challenge it. 

I am seriously thinking of doing this and already have sent an LBA to them….  Let am tell you how and why.

I bought an electrical item from a seller who sells loads of them.  I did not bother to look at their selling status and assume the must be a trader.  They were not. It is reasonable and my right to assume this in these circumstances

I said to the seller that I had changed my mind and wished to cancel ( Reg 29 of the CCR2013 says a consumer can cancel for no reason and for nil cost).  They told me to get lost.  I checked their status and they were ‘Private’… so I asked eBay for their name and address.

eBay said no due to GDOR.  I explained to eBay that the seller had my details and there are good reason to give me theirs ( ie an exception in GDPR)… they still refused.  They therefore actively interceded to present my suing the trader. To claim no privity is crazy, they make money from the deal and would lose it if I won.. so they could be said to be acting improperly for monetary gain.

I then showed them the hundreds of items the seller had sold ( all the same) and the words ‘We buy old items, refurbish and sell them’ on their adverts and indeed showed them that this seller had a shop…

Still eBay refuse to give me his details….  So I got them anyway by other means.

So I am now thinking of suing the person for presenting himself as a private seller when he was not, and thus denying my absolute right to return the goods…

I think I shall include eBay in the action on the basis that they deliberately frustrated me access to my consumer rights, and did so in the knowledge of this persons illegal and in fact criminal activity.

The guys is still trading AS PRIVATE.

Should I sue?

[pg_kicks]

We agree upto now but your vision for the future differs from mine, they have been losing money due to this loophole/cba changing it for the last 5 years, I don't think (hope Im wrong) they will care now. Ever since they have been doing 70/80% off every 2 weeks they could have sorted the issue, theres hundreds of accounts doing exactly what I do but on a smaller scale who were only listing every 2 weeks, now they list every day (within reason) eBay are only losing out on 30-20%, they didnt care when they were losing out on 70% so why now care when they miss out on 30%.

Its proven that no eBay staff speak up on these threads that eBay care so little for it, yet they speak up on threads about pointless changes eBay have done that bring nothing to the site.

[technthread]

Should I sue?

I think if you really ask around for honest answers you will find many people are tired of how litigious we are getting as a society.

[secularsid]

With respect; you are completely mistaken.  (goggle it).

The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regs at Sec 5 and 6 ( misleading omissions and misleading statements) absolutely make this a criminal offence…  There are numerous civil remedies including the 2014 Amendment to these regs and the Misperceptions Act 1967.

It is a criminal offence to conceal or misrepresent one’s identity if you are a trader.  If you are also incorporated it is an offence against Companies Act ( disclosure Regs 2008) Absolutely a criminal offence.

[secularsid]

Yes you are right... a bit.  

Failing to display buiness detials is ONLY an offence if you are incoprporated ( Limited co or plc)... 

To mirep them is always criminal, regardless of incorporation.

Let's face it... who but a scamp would hide thier detials from a buyer?

[secularsid]

Chicken and egg!

No need to sue if people are honest. We are not talking about tripping over a kerb.  This person deliberately pretends to be a private seller and makes cash from it. He is also a criminal.

[ready-to-grow-plants]

So,  who can act to address this? I can't see the police being interested 

[art2own]

Since the 1st October about 7% of business sellers have moved stock to private accounts in the categories I sell in. I've been monitoring the numbers every month. UK business sellers, when searching "paintings," the "paintings" category had 90,259 listed two months ago on the 1st October; they now have 83,632, down 7.34%. Private sellers had 124,688; they now have 132,614, up 6.35%. Business listings down, private listings up. I wonder why?

I have nothing against business sellers selling on private accounts as a form of protest; actions speak loader than words, may it continue until eBay sees the numbers for themselves and realise the need to actually create a level and fair selling platform.

[vintique*violet]

For Shareholders - to make it seem more viable ongoing... 

[kikicollectables]

That is exactly the problem. Ebay are taking large chunks of money when selling expensive items. I am losing half my profits when buying to sell. An example buy a ring at £120 sell for £200. Ebay take about £40 including VAT so half your profit gone. Selling privately on Ebay the whole £80 is yours. A complete no brainer. Business sellers are moving to Etsy, Facebook etc in droves unsurprisingly.

[kikicollectables]

This will become the norm now private sellers don't pay fees - there seems to be no encouragement for business sellers on Ebay at all.  Never had a final fees rebate etc. The Tax man doesn't care whether you are a private seller or a business seller as long as they get their cut unsurprisingly. Ebay do not give a fig about the business seller.

[vintique*violet]

True private sellers might only have one personal ring ( or another item) to sell - traders could have 10 or 50. There is a huge difference between genuine private sellers and BUSINESS who are scamming and hiding under the private seller account.  

Private sellers are also going to have their payments on hold until after delivery of the items ( supposedly 48 hours after) which could mean up to 14 days or more - we are now at the hands of the postal services and the recording system  ( automated, A.I. etc) and I have at least 3 items sold which are still showing as not delivered - delayed from 3 weeks ago...when the buyers have already left feedback and received their item. Under this new implementation that can mean we are giving our items away for how long who knows, and having to battle with eBay for our funds not to mention paying postage up front.

We never asked for a free to sell platform - in fact eBay have moved their goal posts and changed their platform so many times it is almost unrecognisable from what it originally was and not in a good way. Many private sellers are leaving due to these new systems, which means eBay and genuine businesses lose too, as many buy more than they sell. 

eBay need to remove those  fake businesses , and not penalise those who are genuine. 

If a Business has the grump about free to sell for genuine private sellers, there is something seriously wrong... You cannot compare their selling  of a few items to a business trader who has 1000's of stock to sell for profit.

It is now beyond a joke. 

[secularsid]

The enforcement body for these offenses is Trading Standards. They can prosecute but tend not to care... They make it hard to report and they have no resources...   Personally I always sue ( there is civil remedy allowed).   Its easy and cheap and the offenders almost always fold before court.

EBay just do not care...  But they will.  Times they are a changing.

Also HMRC are actively seeking the small trader pretending to be private...  There is estimated to be over 5 billion a year sold on ebay which is evading tax in UK alone.  It's a lot of dosh and HMRC want their cut.

eBay used to such a good place to trade but it spoiled now by dishonest sellers and Chinese sellers pretending to be in the UK.

[secularsid]

In fact there is no distinction between a trader selling 5 pots he made and ne who made 5,000 pots.  Whether o not a trader is a trader is based very simple criteria. Yo can find it on HMRC sites.

If 89 year old mrs Jones makes cakes to sell in the local car boot sale she is a de facto trader.  Bear n mind that she can sell thousands of pounds of cake before she is liable for tax.... of course..... BUT she is liable for all consumer regs when she sells one to a consumer.

People miss the point.  Whilst HMRC is an arbiter of whether or not you are a Trader.... It is the consumer rights issues which are most relevant.

Did you know you can sell at a loss in some situations and still be a trader?!   It is not just about how much money you make.

[myretrostore-uk]

These 'business' accounts selling as private sellers is really grinding me the wrong way.

I've no issues with legitimate private sellers selling with zero fees, but now there are thousands of sellers abusing this. You can clearly see they are businesses as they are manufacturing products to sell and have sold thousands of units.

In my case a lot of my competitors are now private sellers and as a result they can afford to come in at lower prices and I have seen a big drop in sales.

I've started to report lots of these sellers but eBay has no interest in fixing this. All the reports just get closed with no issue found.

I have also recently been thinking of creating a private account but I have a conscience.

This is a big slap in the face for legitimate business sellers.

[papso22]

I wonder if it's worth getting some legal advice and considering action against ebay for deliberately putting your business in jeopardy by not taking action against illegal accounts?

[digitrade99]

I feel exactly the same way but I'm also starting to feel if I can't beat them I may as well join them. Maybe if enough business sellers switch to being private sellers eBay might actually notice it and do something then we just switch back to being business seller  when they stop it