23-05-2025 9:25 AM - edited 23-05-2025 9:34 AM
Email from eBay this morning.
If I read it correctly, from 24th June, if you use promoted listings and ANYBODY clicks on the ad one time...if the item then sells to ANYBODY ELSE within the next 30 days, you get charged as if the first guy bought it.
That means that if Bob in Scotland clicks an ad and doesn't buy, but Steve from Wales rolls in 29 days later and finds the item in search and buys it without clicking on a promoted listings ad, you get charged because Bob clicked it almost a month ago.
It's all well and good saying "You'll still only pay when your items sell" eBay, but that isn't the point. We pay for promoted listings in order to help find A BUYER, not a browser. If somebody comes in and buys an item organically, then the ad hasn't done its job and we're not paying for it.
We'll be removing all of our promoted listings campaigns later today, as this starts in 32 days, which is extremely underhanded. The reason being that there's a 30-day attribution window, so if Steve clicks on one of our ads this Sunday, on June 24th when Bob buys the item without clicking an advert, we'll get charged.
23-05-2025 2:38 PM
Thanks for the empirical data, stuff like this is really useful and it was wonderful of you to give us this insight. The more evidence of what this actually entails and what it will mean for each of us, the more confident we can be in what we all decide to do in response.
Thanks again 🙏
23-05-2025 2:44 PM
I didn’t even think of that but you’re right, and you know eBay are rubbing their hands together at the thought of this. It’s guaranteed money that extremely competitive sellers are going to just hand them on a plate, if this is something people would really do. Someone else pointed out that they, like me, often click listings when researching for selling their own items, or checking the description to see what differences there might be between items, which is obviously not a genuine click from a genuine buyer; so that’s two ways the seller can be screwed over, neither of which has any benefit to them at all in the way of sales.
Im used to eBay’s money grubbing policy changes now, but this… this is a broken policy from the outset.
23-05-2025 2:48 PM
A question. What about the huge sellers? Webuybooks, musicmagpie etc.
Special rates?
23-05-2025 2:50 PM
I stay the hell away from that 200% pay for clicks one after the few times I used it, they absolutely drained my account at every possible opportunity. No increase in sales, loads of impressions and clicks, and cost me all my profit margin.
It’s kind of conspiratorial, but I, for one, have no idea how many of those clicks come from actual humans and how many come from bots or whatever.
Now that’s unfounded speculation, but I know for a fact that eBay omits listings from sellers who aren’t using the 200% campaign in order to drive clicks to those who are, and I proved it using about 50 people on Reddit who when I gave them my username and listings, some of them couldn’t find one or the other, some couldn’t find either when doing a normal search, and when I provided a link, my username and feedback score were greyed out making them unclickable. It’s all so damn shady and I haven’t used it since.
23-05-2025 3:00 PM
I don’t know what kind of deal they have with eBay and if this even affects them, if it does then doing what you mentioned to the big sellers would be a way to
make sure eBay has to deal with them being very unhappy about this policy, but it’s all scumbaggery, really. If you mean what about the big sellers all clicking OUR items to drive us away due to fees, well… I hope that wouldn’t happen but it would be incredibly naive of me to think it wouldn’t.
I mean, if the big sellers aren’t included in this policy, it’s just us smaller sellers, then the best we can do is take our stuff off promoted if that’s fiscally viable for you, complain to them on an individual basis, and maybe get together to create a proper document to protest the change and have us all sign it electronically.
if they are as susceptible to the policy change as the rest of us, they’re not going to react nicely to having to pay fees on every single one of their items forever, and eBay will be under pressure to change its policy; and if it changes the policy for big sellers and keeps it the same for us private sellers, well then it might become something quite big. That might be the decision that ends the company, I don’t know.
But anyway, it might be something we should all talk about? I’ll leave it up to you if you wanna start a thread as it was something that occurred to you as a way that people might abuse the system. Not implying anything, by the way, it’s great that you thought laterally and saw a potential way that people might abuse it.
23-05-2025 3:06 PM - edited 23-05-2025 3:13 PM
@gunslingerx81 wrote:Thanks for the empirical data, stuff like this is really useful and it was wonderful of you to give us this insight. The more evidence of what this actually entails and what it will mean for each of us, the more confident we can be in what we all decide to do in response.
Thanks again 🙏
@gunslingerx81 you're welcome!
We had a good discussion going about this topic over in the US community when it was introduced for Germany as well that some here might find interesting:
The consensus ended up being that now more than ever, sellers who use Promoted Listings must simply assume that every sale will have the ad fee applied and set their ad rates and prices accordingly - with a few meager organic sales that may still come in without the fee relegated to basically being a "bonus."
It's insane, absolutely unethical and not at all industry standard what eBay is doing here, but the realty of this change is sellers will have to view it as a "voluntary" Final Value Fee increase where you as the seller get to decide the additional percentage you'll pay to eBay.
And just to be clear - I use that word very lightly and put it in quotes because I know while it's still technically true that enrolling in ads is voluntary, the system is rigged to make it absolutely necessary for many sellers to use Promoted Listings.
23-05-2025 3:17 PM
We need clarification on the word "buyer" after all logically a buyer isn't a buyer unless they buy, but in ebay parlance a buyer has usually been a class of user/actions opposed to "seller".
Why I bring this up is that most of our items are single quantity listings. So it could be read that such items aren't affected by this change. They can't be bought twice, and clicks (unlike sales) do not have a significant material benefit to us in best match.
But ebay has done this before- such as ads appearing after winning an auction titled "buyers of this also bought" or some such. Well no, they didn't did they. I am the only buyer of this item, and I haven't bought the things being advertised.
I don't have the money or mental health for legal action, but if they're doing what I think they're doing then I'd love to see it argued!
23-05-2025 3:22 PM
The trouble is, that there are so many sellers out there now that have had "advertising" from Ebay rammed down their throat, that they think there is no option but to use it.
Obviously a lot depends on what you sell, but I really don't believe that you need to advertise, at least not on Ebay directly.
If you have a website, it will be far more lucrative over time, to put the money into that, in most cases anyway.
But I've never understood this attitude, "you must advertise, or you won't sell anything". It's just not true.
23-05-2025 3:32 PM
You've got a point here, many business sellers do have alternative sales channels. It's things like this that will make sellers reconsider the balance of effort going in. My website is up and 'ticking over' with orders but maybe it'll get some more effort put in and some budget toward ads.
I anticipate that ebay trifling with scraping a few extra quid in fees will be a lot more costly in the long run if they succeeed in forcing sellers to pivot or driving them away completely
23-05-2025 3:35 PM
No, we tried a website. Never sold a single thing. Did all the nonsense recommended, just a money pit, nobody came and we couldn't justify the time and expense.
Selling largely second hand but modern manufacture goods on a standalone website... people find it odd, I think.
We keep the promoted as low as possible at 2%, it still brings in about 25% of sales. Can't really do without it. We've been selling professionally since '09, so believe me, we've tried it all, and pay-per-sale promoted is the fairest and most worthwhile (mind you pretty much everything else lost money!).
Regardless I can be safely ignored with my little terminology query above, I see the message text is more explict, I was looking at the policy page where it uses the word buyer more freely.
23-05-2025 3:35 PM - edited 23-05-2025 3:41 PM
@derpybay wrote:We need clarification on the word "buyer" after all logically a buyer isn't a buyer unless they buy, but in ebay parlance a buyer has usually been a class of user/actions opposed to "seller".
Why I bring this up is that most of our items are single quantity listings. So it could be read that such items aren't affected by this change. They can't be bought twice, and clicks (unlike sales) do not have a significant material benefit to us in best match.
But ebay has done this before- such as ads appearing after winning an auction titled "buyers of this also bought" or some such. Well no, they didn't did they. I am the only buyer of this item, and I haven't bought the things being advertised.
I don't have the money or mental health for legal action, but if they're doing what I think they're doing then I'd love to see it argued!
@derpybay you can look at what is already happening in Germany where eBay put this same exact policy into effect in February.
"Buyer" means exactly what eBay usually means by that word - as you put it, a class of user that is the opposite of seller.
As with most eBay policies (aside from how they count Active Buyers in quarterly financial reports which is a different thing all together) a "buyer" doesn't actually have to complete a purchase before they are considered a "buyer" even though I know grammatically that doesn't make sense.
In this case, you can and should think of it as "user" and not "buyer" specifically - that's what eBay actually means in practice and what they really should have said for clarity.
After all, anyone with an active account in good standing is a potential buyer, even if that account has historically only been used for selling - not to mention that even those who don't have an account registered and are just browsing the site not logged in can and do click on Promoted Listings ads.
If any user clicks an ad for one of your items but doesn't purchase it then another user finds that same item as an organic search result and buys it within 30 days, if that item is still in an active ad campaign at the time of that purchase, you will be charged the ad fee even though the click on the ad had absolutely nothing to do with the eventual actual sale.
And by the way, yes, this also works this way even if that user who clicked on the ad was another seller who either maliciously clicks on competitor ads or (much more likely and occurs more often in my opinion) simply another seller doing research and/or looking at other listings to "sell similar" from.
If another seller clicks on your ad in one of those scenarios and then an actual buyer comes along later, finds that same item organically and makes the purchase, you will pay the ad fee.
eBay says they have systems in place to detect and mitigate malicious clicks (which I'm personally very skeptical about their success in that area) but honestly I think the non-malicious but still no intent to buy clicks (like other sellers doing research) are a much bigger concern.
23-05-2025 3:40 PM
@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:"This change however makes it very easy to hurt your competitors if they advertising.
All you need to do is literally click their listings and they and guaranteed to pay full advertising fees when they sell. Can see it getting abused a lot this one."
Not something I would do. Its Click fraud and can potentially land the person
doing this in big trouble.
"
Key Points:
Fraudulent Intent:Click fraud is a form of fraud because it involves intentionally manipulating the click-through process to gain an unfair advantage. Financial Harm:The main harm is to advertisers, who are charged for clicks that did not represent genuine user interest. Penalties:Penalties can vary, but can include fines, imprisonment, or other legal consequences, depending on the severity of the fraud and the specific laws in place.
23-05-2025 3:41 PM
Yes, I see that the wording is different in different places, and the message text is more clear. Well, this is certainly unjusitifiable then. If it was because a sale boots your best match then it would still be a stinker of a policy but you can see something there.
A click, any click- madness.
Will have to have a think, though a quick think given the timescales involved, also particuarly terrible of them to have it nearly overlap like this.
23-05-2025 3:48 PM
@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:I don't use it myself, except for very limited use on specific listings.
But frankly that will stop now if this goes ahead.
This change however makes it very easy to hurt your competitors if they advertising.
All you need to do is literally click their listings and they and guaranteed to pay full advertising fees when they sell. Can see it getting abused a lot this one.
@therenewalworkshopltd while I do absolutely believe malicious clicks/click fraud is a problem, honestly I think the bigger problem with this policy is the many ways in which your ads may receive many non-malicious but still no intent to buy clicks.
How many non-malicious sellers click on other sellers listings when doing research and/or when they find another listing to use to "sell one like this"?
In that scenario, if that click is on an ad it would be counted even though there is no intent to buy and then later if someone else finds it organically and makes the purchase, you will be charged the ad fee.
That type of activity is not malicious or intentionally harmful and would not exhibit common red flags eBay's systems may be looking for to determine "abusive behaviour" - in fact, there is nothing about that activity that would in any way differentiate from normal non-abusive/non-malicious user activity at all.
I honestly believe that is a much bigger problem in this new attribution model than malicious clicks.
23-05-2025 3:59 PM
24th June comes - all ads & campaigns are getting switched off permanently here.
23-05-2025 4:03 PM
A website is not necessarily a money pit. But what it does take, is a lot of time and effort to build it up.
I wouldn't expect to really start to see something from a website, for the first 12 months or so. Unless of course you are heavily promoting it.
But it can be worth it.
23-05-2025 4:04 PM
Thanks for your input here - I think what you've said here is very realistic. I suspect that without promoted listings I'll sell almost nothing, so will have to suck up the extra fees.
Its another kick-up the *bleep* to set up my own shop!
23-05-2025 4:06 PM
I wasn't advocating it at all, just that it makes it very easy to hurt your competitors.
There is of course the other side of that, I regularly look at other listings, by doing so, I will effectively be causing them to pay (assuming promoted) a fee for any sale they make.
So who is to say where the line is between malicious and just using the website?
Particularly when it is so easy to open multiple accounts. I guarantee, that this will be abused.
23-05-2025 4:07 PM
I don't disagree with that at all, as per my prior post! 🙂
I was just making the point, that it is a very easy to abuse policy.
23-05-2025 4:22 PM
Just ended all the listings I have promoted and will sell similar, just to be sure I never get another charge.
Won't be using PL again.