Private Sellers continuing to operate as businesses

[reynardnoirrailwayana2015]

Hi all, 

I know there was another thread on this topic closed recently, but as a business seller doing things properly, I am increasingly being undercut by private sellers who are clearly businesses but have not registered as such. One seller I have seen in the same category we mostly operate in has had over 7,000 sales and has sold over 300 items in the last 12 months, and has over 400 items listed. This clearly is not someone who is operating as a business but is registered as a private seller. There are of course endless similar examples of this. 

eBay could easily police this but clearly opts not to, but should we as business sellers be able to report private accounts that are acting as businesses. Or are we all just hoping HMRC take action on these sellers (HMRC being efficient and fast moving seems unlikely).

What action should eBay be taking to protect and encourage business sellers, who seem to be at a massive disadvantage...

[howmuchtobid]

Yes, despite the supposed deadlines to register as a business on the 4th / then 9th September it appears many are happily still getting away with running businesses from private accounts. 

I named and shamed two on these forums during the last couple of days however an Ebay moderator removed my comments, it seems they are more bothered about that than sellers who are breaking UK laws and negatively impacting on legitimate business sellers. One of the sellers I named has 1800 listings and sells thousands of pounds worth of stock each month....... they were still listing fresh items last night from a private account.

I have no faith in Ebay to sort this mess out.

[vintagechinashop]

I guess they feel like they have ticked a box as far as HMRC are concerned and let's face it that is the extent of their concern   It needs someone dedicated to seeking out these private sellers who clearly operate as a business and give them a final warning comply or you will have your account suspended. After all it would pay eBay to pay someone to do this because of the extra revenue in fees 

instead they continue to make life harder for those who do things honestly and seem to get punished for doing so. IMHO

[addyeddy]

How do you know they're not selling a private collection?

I am 61 and have been collecting things for 50 or so years, and am now selling it all, in order to live basically.

All my own stuff that I purchased, and no longer want.

[james_cumbria]

I share your pain!  It's not like eBay to miss an opportunity to squeeze money out of people.   Yet it allows thousands of business sellers to operate under private accounts, thereby paying no shop fees and benefiting from reduced - and sometimes zero - final value fees under the numerous promotions that are made available to private sellers.   So for example, last week I sold an item for £1250 and paid £169 in fees on that item alone - but another business selling a comparable item under a private account might pay nothing.  I just don't get it.  Why doesn't eBay want their money?    

[pg_kicks]

There are many accounts selling private collections, 99.9% of these are obvious as they are normally following a certain pattern, be that the same genre of dvd's, records, sneakers and once they have sold they are not replaced with another item the exact same 5 or 6 times. Nobody has any issue with these sellers but ones who have sold 10/20 of the same item all brand new with tags different sizing or items that have only just been released in the last 6 months and once that it sold another appears are not selling a collection, thats a business. 

Add in that many of these have usernames that have the word shop/store/emporium in them again at the very least tries to convince a buyer they are a business, or the most obvious ones who just say outright they are a business but break the law and dont have returns and or contact details on the listing.

Nobody has any issue with somebody wanting to get rid of their old collection to get some money, we all know its a struggle but we all (and every genuine private account should too) have issues with accounts not only breaking eBay policy but breaking UK law and making this site less safe for buyers which in turn make it worse for everyone else.

[addyeddy]

Fair enough, point taken.

[lupo-store]

I am in exactly the same boat and since this recent phenomena of chinese sellers buying UK private accounts has occurred our turnover has dropped by 25%. They have a 20% price advantage on us as they do not have VAT taken at source now.

We have had a couple of conversations with eBay concierge and what appears to be happening is that all of these accounts which have not correctly upgraded to a business account are having an action taken against them, however, every account where restrictions will be made against are having to be checked manually twin sure that these restrictions are correctly applied.

Whilst this is not 100% the news we want it is understandable from eBay is legal responsibility. We are sure that this will be concluded in the next few weeks

[plpmr]

"chinese sellers buying UK private accounts" 

eBay don't allow accounts to be sold and you need to report the ones you know about - https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/selling/selling-ebay-account?id=4134&st=3&pos=2&query=Selling%20...

[lupo-store]

We have made many test purchases from 'private' eBay accounts, all with many hundreds of multi new listings.  They have all been delivered from UK based 3PL's owned by companies with Chinese directors.  We have found websites and Facebook groups where eBay accounts have been sold illegally.  

All of the above has been passed on to eBay Trust and Safety.  Its just a little frustrating as we were hoping for a 'cull' after September 9 but understand eBay cannot deem anyone incorrectly a business when they are not.  There maybe people who are selling the contents of a dead relative's estate which then exceed the selling limits for example.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Wow, whilst I appreciate that you may be affected by people doing as you say, you need to be very careful about the accusations that you are throwing around.

Just because items are delivered from a UK based 3PL, that is owned by someone with a Chinese name, or is even based in China, is far from sufficient evidence to prove that a company is trading illegally.

The same can be said with websites etc, that are trading accounts.  These have actually existed for almost as long as Ebay has.  And you certainly cannot link the two together.

You need far more proof than what you are saying here.  

[moldosgifts]

As a private collector you'll have no new stuff then, it will all be pre owned, as collectors have already purchased it to add to their collection it cannot be new. Only a business can have new stuff.

[kempseykate]

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@moldosgifts

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No, private sellers can have new items as well. I currently have a towel listed - still new, unused in its original pack (BIL bought it for my OH and it has sat in the bag in the cupboard for some time).  These were the only condition options I had when listing:

 

New

A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item. See the seller's listing for full details.

 

Used

An item that has been previously used. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections.

 

As it hasn't been previously used, I chose the 'new' option. If something is new, unused, unoped, undamaged, it is new, regardless of the seller's selling status. I did have another (different design) which wasn't in its original bag (we couldn't remember if it came in a bag) so although it was unused, undamaged and had the original tags, I did list that, grudgingly, as used.

Ebay really need to change from 'new' to 'unused' in many categories.

 

It's beyond a joke that some seem to think that having bought an item, a private seller instantly has a 'used' item. Yet a business seller can buy that same item, that has been tried on in the shop a couple of times, hung on the rail and been handled for a whole season, passed on to a wholesaler, had the label cut (undamaged, remember?) but it is still 'new'!

[lupo-store]

I can tell you I do not band these accusations about without careful thought.  All sellers I have ordered from who are my competitors I have checked the sales of their respective items and they are well in excess of the threshold to meet the criteria for a business account on eBay.  

I know for a fact Chinese accounts have taken over UK private accounts.  I am helping with a report for the National Audit Office presently into many other facets of VAT evasion but can assure you that private accounts have been infiltrated.  Regardless of the above and if these accounts are Chinese owned or not it is 100% true they have exceeded the threshold and should be  a business

[moldosgifts]

This is the flaw with ebay i have things i bought 30 years ago never opened them as they are a collection i would not regard them as new as i bought for myself.

Things i bought for my business are new i have no intentions of keeping them they are bought to resell,

[moldosgifts]

It's beyond a joke that some seem to think that having bought an item, a private seller instantly has a 'used' item. Yet a business seller can buy that same item, that has been tried on in the shop a couple of times, hung on the rail and been handled for a whole season, passed on to a wholesaler, had the label cut (undamaged, remember?) but it is still 'new'!

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The point of that example is you will get your full buyer protection if bought from a business. But yes they arent new they are unused.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Try thinking about it a different way.

If your neighbour bought a brand new car and then sold it to you a year later, with it just being sat on the drive.

Would you still consider that a brand new car?

Whether your talking about a car, a Towel, or a piece of clothing, it's exactly the same.

This is why the likes of the people who buy from retailers to resell, is such a dodgy market.

I know for a fact, that if Amazon catch you doing this, you will get kicked of the site, or at the very least a final warning.

[papso22]

Out of interest why the NAO and not HMRC in connection with VAT evasion?

[kempseykate]

" If your neighbour bought a brand new car and then sold it to you a year later, with it just being sat on the drive.

Would you still consider that a brand new car?"

Firstly cars are a whole different ball game as they start to depreciate as soon as you have paid for  it.

Secondly, it  obviously couldn't be new if it had been rained on, hailed on, pooped on, and scratched when little Johnny caught it with his bike - my towel has had none of those things happen to it!

There is also the matter of warranty - towels don't come with a warranty, cars do.

@moldosgifts 

"The point of that example is you will get your full buyer protection if bought from a business."

The buyer of my towel (if I get one) will get exactly the same rights as they would if I was a business seller. But that doesn't make any difference to the condition.

At the end of the day, you can't just change the definition of a word to suit yourself!

[nurse-watch-fun]

i feel your pain! another private selling copying a lot of my watches (but badly so) and even with them charging almost £2.00 postage on top of price they are more expensive than me YET my sales at an all time low and they seem to be selling!  they even have gawdy big background pictures of the item which dwarf the actual item being sold and ebay clearly state that background pictures are not allowed (i have to use my business logo otherwise i'm sure a lot more theft would go on) and ebay tell me it's not a problem.  they've had negative feedback which gets removed within 2 hours yet i can't get mine removed even tho' i have proof that customers were lying.  i think ai has taken over a lot of messaging on ebay and customer service unless you get put through to ireland are of no help whatsoever.  they start off every conversation thanking you for your millions of years of being with them and then do nothing to help you.  sales at an all time low and fees etc higher than ever.  couldn't even afford a bar of chocolate with what i am earning yet i still put in my tax returns every year.  so sad.  but like the world in general at the moment eh?