Negative feedback from a buyer who kept the product

[atlantis-myshop]

   Hi everyone,

   I'm having an issue with one of my recent sales on eBay. A buyer left me negative feedback, claiming that the item was not as described. Interestingly, the buyer kept the product and did not attempt to contact me or ask for a refund. I have sold several of these products without any problems, and the picture I used was provided by the manufacturer.

   I reached out to the buyer, asking for clarification or a change in feedback, but received no response. I also contacted eBay, but unfortunately, my request to remove the feedback was denied.

   My thought on this matter: shouldn't it be the case that if something is not as described (regardless of the reason), an automatic return should be initiated? This would mean the buyer did not intend to purchase the item they received. They leave negative feedback and keep the item - in such cases, there should be an option to leave only neutral feedback or something similar.

Additionally, I accidentally posted the same topic in the Community Platform Discussion section. Could an admin please remove that duplicate thread?

Thank you for your help!

[myriad*seller]

Many buyers do not realise that returns are at the sellers expense, so they leave bad feedback as they don't want to pay to return it. They also think "no returns" means they cannot send it back! 

Other people work full time and do not have time to post it back (or live miles from a Post Office) so it is too much "hassle" to return items 

Maybe offer to get a courier to collect the item from the buyer in exchange for changing the feedback? 

Did you offer returns on your listing? If not, no wonder the buyer left bad feedback if they think you will refuse the item! 

[atlantis-myshop]

   Thanks for your input! Yes, I offered a 30-day return policy as a Top Seller. However, cosmetics and personal hygiene products are often exempt from return policies due to health and hygiene regulations. Although eBay requires acceptance of returns even in these cases, which is difficult for sellers who want to adhere to these regulations.

   By the way, may I ask what a private seller is doing on the Business Seller Board? I'm interested in the perspective from this side.

   Buyers claim that the item is bad, e.g., wrong colour, wrong picture, and leave negative feedback, but they still keep it - as a "reward"? It's not fair. I'd love to hear your thoughts since there's nothing I can do about it - ultimately, it's eBay who makes the rules. Something seems to be missing in these feedback policies.

[myriad*seller]

Yes, I replied before looking at your listings which seem perfectly in order

Perhaps they thought that as it was cosmetics they couldn't return it

I would never buy foundation online as how can you tell what colour it is unless you already use the brand? I'm surprised you don't get this issue more often as monitors vary widely, so you can't expect what you see on screen to be what is delivered. 

Sounds like she was disappointed as it did not appear the colour she saw on her screen 

Nothing in your listing would put buyers off from returning items, perhaps the cost to post it back (as it was simply buyer remorse if the items are genuine) rather than a fault with the product 

Sounds like just one of those things, did you offer a full refund on return? 

Anyone can post on these boards, I have been here decades as you will see.. We learn a lot on these boards and try to help others. 

[cobwebcottage]

Yep, it happens. I have a neg for an old teracotta pot I sold and missed that it had a small crack which I hadn't put in my description. The buyer left a neg and said in his feedback that he had smashed it up! 

Why someone would smash it when they had a choice to return it for a full refund is beyond me, although they seemed to like leaving negs.

[bravergrace]

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@myriad*seller wrote:

Maybe offer to get a courier to collect the item from the buyer in exchange for changing the feedback? 

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I don't think that's allowed.  You aren't allowed to buy or sell feedback.

[nutrafituk]

Try this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/feedback-policies/feedback-policies?id=4208

When do we remove feedback?

The buyer is raising an issue that was correctly disclosed in the listing

If your listing is perfectly clear and it matches the item recieved the comment should be removed as per this policy. Having said that the way eBay is these days, it is never straight-forawrd and it simply depends who you talk to...

[atlantis-myshop]

   Thank you for the explanation. I appreciate that anyone can write on these forums and that we learn from each other, helping one another. But the truth is, when eBay decides to impose something, our suggestions and advice might not be enough to change the situation. Even if we start protesting today against negative feedback from buyers who don’t like the product but still keep it, eBay won't pay attention to our protests and comments. That's the reality.

   This isn’t just about my feedback. I’m talking about negative feedback from a buyer who kept the product. Is it fair for a buyer to keep an item they don't like ("I'll keep it, it might come in handy")? I understand that negative feedback is necessary, but there should be more to it in situations like this. You could think that:

1) there’s actually something damaged or misdescribed

2) they leave negative feedback just because they felt like it

3) they leave negative feedback knowing the seller wants to keep a 100% rating and might get something in return for positive feedback, like a refund.

Negative feedback should come with responsibility, not be used carelessly. Maybe a return policy would make buyers think twice before leaving such feedback. There would be far fewer and they wouldn’t harm sellers, because right now, no one can harm them this way and they laugh in everyone’s face, including eBay. eBay doesn’t see how they are being manipulated - they're blind and what they give to the buyers, they take from us and even slap us with a penalty. In a sense, eBay is aiding them by not paying attention, and as we know, if you don't set boundaries when needed, later on no boundaries will help.

   I received a response from eBay:
Our decision: We reviewed the feedback, and can see that the buyer found that the item wasn't as described in the listing. For this reason, the feedback was not removed. Just so you know, this feedback will not impact your seller performance level.

[ojewellery]

I take negatives/ neutrals to heart and find it quite hard to move on from - its a human reaction.  Its easy to waste hours over analysing the unfairness etc.  You're right, it is unfair.  

With my business head on, steping back from the potential feedback abuse, I agree there are things that could be done.

The issue is each extra piece of eBay intervention has an overhead cost.  What would you pay as a percentage per sale to have the extra staffing and support to put extra measures in place?  1%, 2%, 3%, 5% per sale?  

I can't think of extra meassures that wouldn't have a cost and costs would definetly need to be covered.

Your feedback is fantastic.  One neg, whilst frustrating and painful, wont affect your performance.  In twelve months it wont show when buyers check your feedback.

You can leave follow up feedback - I think that this isn't a message to the buyer who's left the feedback.  Its a message to future buyers checking out you're a reasonable seller.  So you could say

Thank you for your purchase.  We're sorry to read in your feedback that you were dissapointed with the shade of the product purchased.  You are correct, monitor/ screen colours do vary and if unfamiliar with a product it can be worth checking an in person colour chart the first time you purchase. Taking on board your comments we will add a note to our listings that colours can appear different on different monitors so the shade may look different in person.

Just as a quickly typed example, to show you're very reasonable.  It also hints that the feedback is the only coms, buyer is not really being reasonable and you have read the comment and are endevouring to save future customers who don't realise things can look different on different screens from the same issue.

[nutrafituk]

 Having checked your listing, in terms of item description it is very basic. Please consider adding as much information as possible to avoid another customer's disappointment. Another thing is a disclaimer and terms of sale - just by adding 'actual shade colour may be slightly different due to light source' or something like the one sugegsted by OJEWELLERY 'check it first in person priot to purchase' would save you a headache and likely preotect you from a negative feedback. The more accurate your listing is the less problematic it will become.

Now - it may be best thing that happened to you. Trust me - there will be always one, and you cannot with that battle.  The sooner you get used to it the better. We had 100% positive feedback for 9 years running - having sold thousands of items every month. Simple it was: all done here properly, if there was an unhappy customer we tried tro resolve an issue if possible, or contacted ebayto look into that having a strong argument for a removal. 

What happened next was they changed the rules... There is pretty much no point contacting them as tehy have a lovely script that goes 'no can do', and I guess there are not allowed to use their brains any more. Regardless of how much you are right and a customer is wrong - it does not matter as per 'customer's experience'! Funny enough anything can fall with that:  a postal servicxe they were not happy with, a product despite that should be a review of it, lack of instant response over the weekend - just name it. My favourite one is 'we cannot remove it because we did not handle the item'.  A buyer just says so, and you can have pictures, CCTV footage and anything else, ebay will still not bother... Just wonder how come they can remove any negative feedback as they never 'handle an item'? Or 'why don't you just offer them something'? It only gets better, and it is not about fairness at all but just to please a buyer so they come back to ebay - not necessary to you. 

You see, personally I do not mind any negative feedback as long as deserved. Buyers cannot be bothered to contact first (however it is suggested) or open a case, often they are just trigger-happy to leave you one. Interestingly they can now even provide pictures however a seller cannot do the same in the reply. 

So again, do not waste your time - as much as it hurts, it is what it is. Just learn from your mistakes.

[atlantis-myshop]

   This is not my first negative rating. I've had a few already. I'm not worried about it as you suggest, because soon my listings here will shrink. Only those that can't be sold elsewhere will remain. I have opened my own online store, and it will take some time to move everything over there. This rating only confirmed to me that it was worth the risk to open the store. I don't understand why you are so worried about me ;), that's not what I intended when I started this topic, but thank you very much and I appreciate it. The advice you've written here will surely help others, as I'm already immune to it (I calm down within an hour).

   The main question is: should a buyer leave negative feedback and keep the item? Secondly: should there be an automatic return in such a case? Keeping a purchased dud and leaving a negative review contradicts itself. If they keep it, it means they need it, so... something is missing here.

[myriad*seller]

It's not really buying feedback though, just facilitating a return that perhaps the buyer wasnt aware they could get? 

[myriad*seller]

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@atlantis-myshop wrote:

   Thank you for the explanation. I appreciate that anyone can write on these forums and that we learn from each other, helping one another. But the truth is, when eBay decides to impose something, our suggestions and advice might not be enough to change the situation. Even if we start protesting today against negative feedback from buyers who don’t like the product but still keep it, eBay won't pay attention to our protests and comments. That's the reality.

   This isn’t just about my feedback. I’m talking about negative feedback from a buyer who kept the product. Is it fair for a buyer to keep an item they don't like ("I'll keep it, it might come in handy")? I understand that negative feedback is necessary, but there should be more to it in situations like this. You could think that:

1) there’s actually something damaged or misdescribed

2) they leave negative feedback just because they felt like it

3) they leave negative feedback knowing the seller wants to keep a 100% rating and might get something in return for positive feedback, like a refund.

Negative feedback should come with responsibility, not be used carelessly. Maybe a return policy would make buyers think twice before leaving such feedback. There would be far fewer and they wouldn’t harm sellers, because right now, no one can harm them this way and they laugh in everyone’s face, including eBay. eBay doesn’t see how they are being manipulated - they're blind and what they give to the buyers, they take from us and even slap us with a penalty. In a sense, eBay is aiding them by not paying attention, and as we know, if you don't set boundaries when needed, later on no boundaries will help.

   I received a response from eBay:
Our decision: We reviewed the feedback, and can see that the buyer found that the item wasn't as described in the listing. For this reason, the feedback was not removed. Just so you know, this feedback will not impact your seller performance level.

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Putting the shoe on the other foot, and bearing in mind returns for items the buyer *alleges* are not as described are at the sellers expense, this could just force buyers to allege damage to get the seller to pay return postage

Do you want to be forced to pay for buyers to return perfectly good products just so you can put them in the bin (as you sell cosmetics)? 

[myriad*seller]

What would be the purpose of returning the item?

You will only have to bin it as it has been opened (or a buyer could have opened and tampered with it so you couldn't resell it).

The buyer may think you can't return opened cosmetics, as stores won't accept returns either, which is why they have testers. 

[ojewellery]

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@atlantis-myshop wrote:

     The main question is: should a buyer leave negative feedback and keep the item? Secondly: should there be an automatic return in such a case? Keeping a purchased dud and leaving a negative review contradicts itself. If they keep it, it means they need it, so... something is missing here.

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An experience can be negative and a buyer keep the item.  If you've ordered something you need, it sort of does the job but isn't quite what you expected and you've needed to use it to fulfill that inital need, then you may feel a return isn't an option - morally I'm sure many buyers, myself included, would feel if you've used it you can't return.

If a buyer has opened an item, to discover the shade isn't as expected, are you still happy to receive it back and offer a full refund?  It would be a selling plus to add this to your listings but have a potential exploitation/ cost overhead.  Or you could have a preprinted note to include in all parcels - please get intouch if you have any issues, even giving your email/ phone number.  

If you think eBay reviews are harsh - look at a few big sellers on eBay, then visit their websites and google reviews.  Google are far less rule bound than even eBay on allowing negative reviews to stand.  Those reviews have an impact on your google shopping visibility so are potentially really costly.

Should there be an automatic return?  No, I don't think so.  But should there be a step, an extra requirement prior to leaving negatve feedback, potentially yes.  The cool off wait 7 days was certainly a step in the right direction on this. 

On Amazon buyers are required to contact seller before opening a dispute.  It makes financial sense for both Amazons business and the sellers.  Sellers get the opportunity to protect their reputation and Amazon get to avoid a high percentage of unhappy customer interactions.

As for setting up own websites and moving off eBay, are you sure you'd let it go in an hour?  

I'm multichannel.  I really rate eBay as a preffered place to sell, for a large platform with lots of traffic and it listens - albeit change is slow.  I sell on Debenhams, Etsy, Amazon and my own website site.  I have a presence elsewhere but they're my main outlets.  Brilliant multichannel listing and inventory management tools enable me to hit a button and sell in lots of places.  I'm very glad to step away from each of them at times - they all have moments that feel beyond logical.  They all make me money.  I make all of them money.

Just making the point I've never understood either/ or when you can do both and potentially gain far more income.

[vintagechinashop]

I've currently two negatives where the exact same thing happened and despite contacting the buyer and informing them I accept returns I never received a reply. Unfortunately this is how things work and it's because eBay prompt buyers to leave feedback almost incessantly. Buyers rarely want to be bothered sending things back and I find these are the type of buyer who doesn't respond to messages 

if you don't get a response there's not much you can't do  but I would always leave a polite response so that other buyers can see that you were not given chance to respond before feedback 

[the-nutwood-collection]

... should a buyer leave negative feedback and keep the item?

The buyer paid for the item, so they're entitled to do whatever they please - use it, gift it, throw it away.  As @ojewellery says, just leave a feedback comment.

Some buyers are just idiots.  I've had negs because the colour didn't match what they wanted it to match - why is that a problem that deserves a neg?  They could just return it and get a refund.

I had a one star review on another site where the buyer bought the wrong thing, admitted they didn't read the description, but said they couldn't be bothered to return it - and gave me one star.  Unfortunately, on that site, I can't block buyers - I have to remember their name and decline any future orders.  One of the few good things about eBay is the BBL.

[atlantis-myshop]

   In response to you: You'd be surprised, but my answer is YES. I can pay for the return and throw it away. I'll suffer through it and make it up elsewhere (I don't just sell cosmetics and I'm not planning to sell only them). Yes, I'll spend money (lose it), but he won't have it either. That's how I would get back at negative feedback when I know I'm right. Eventually, they'd learn. I don't have to sell, so I do it as a hobby and therefore try to do it 100% (e.g., using grey bags for shipping is degrading for me). I know the rules. Of course, I'm talking about those buyers who do it on purpose, not those who are right.

   Now buyers can leave negative feedback and I can't even ask them to return the item (if they don't like it, let them return it), and they can do anything. A minus is a minus - on their account and mine. Again, I'm not targeting those buyers who are right (it hasn't happened to me yet, it's always been their fault, and that's why my "negatives" were removed).

[simplyessential_uk]

Your buyer put "Colour of foundation much darker than picture." Many buyers think they are leaving "reviews" like Amazon and not thinking it effects a sellers ratings.  Its very frustrating and I bet if you click on this buyer and look at their reviews left for others they will be "that type of person" and you are unlikely their first. 
I got one this month, same as you , never contacted me but when I clicked on this buyer they have left 10 other negatives in this month alone (but still keep buying on Ebay). All you can do is leave a polite reply for other buyers to see (and block them) - I wish I had noticed this buyers repeat behaviour before I had left my reply as I would have made reference to it as well.   

[ojewellery]

The naughty step is never fun and if you call out a bad buyer publicly you're at risk.  It is one area I've had success in reporting buyers (then seeing their user ID go poof from my blocked bidders list) - serial negative leavers, when highlighting how unlucky they are in so many transactions on eBay.