Identifying whether a buyer is a business or a personal customer for NI Windsor Framework

[stevehillstamps]

As a seller of collectibles my goods are bought by businesses occasionally for resale if they think they have a bargain or a buyer wants list. I cannot 100% say it is for a personal collection.

How are you planning on identifying whether your customer is a business for your shipments to Northern Ireland?

I've just spent a frustrating morning talking to eBay, Royal mail and Customs and all seem to think this is a new query.

eBay say the only way of identifying a business is to look to see if they have a business shop.  If they are using a buying only profile there is no way of identifying them and that will probably not cut it for customs.

From my understanding, once you've identified them as a business you then need to collect EORI and UKIMS details for the buyer and confirm that the goods are at not risk of reexport to the EU. Doing this via messaging prior to dispatch is a surefire way to get dinged for speed anyway.  If they are at risk you can't use royal mail and need to use parcelforce so the price of postage goes up hugely for small goods. 

How is this better than customs forms for small sellers? I think I'm just going to have to block NI until the dust settles.

[papso22]

Ebay does say that someone buying for a business needs to do so with a business account.  How much weight would be given to that in a dispute over the Framework applying is not known!

[4_bathrooms]

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@stevehillstamps wrote:

eBay say the only way of identifying a business is to look to see if they have a business shop.  If they are using a buying only profile there is no way of identifying them and that will probably not cut it for customs.

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A business cannot misrepresent themself as being a consumer during any transaction. As eBay has distinct "Private" and "Business" accounts a business buyer does indeed require a business account when purchasing as a business. An eBay shop subscription is not required; just being registered as a business is enough (all business accounts are selling accounts even if there are no items being offered for sale).

I actually think for the purposes of the WF this is sufficient. As per the Government's factsheet:

"If your business sends goods in parcels from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, you’ll need to understand whether your customers are businesses or consumers. Different processes apply which could impact the information that your parcel carrier requires.

You may know this information already, based on your knowledge of the recipient, for example if you know that your customer is a clothing retailer.

If you do not know this, you will need to find out. This could be based on whether:

• your customer holds a business account with you
• your customer requires a VAT invoice or holds a VAT identification number
• the characteristics of your customer’s particular transactions (for example volume, type of good, information on their website) indicates they are a business"

I take that to mean if the purchaser is using a private account and there are no other indications they are a business you can treat it as a private sale.

[the-nutwood-collection]

I take that to mean if the purchaser is using a private account and there are no other indications they are a business you can treat it as a private sale.

That's what I do, treat it as a private sale.

I'm UKIMS registered so, even if they are a business, the items I sell are not 'at risk' and can be green laned.

[magpiecorner1]

Where does it say that?

[technthread]

A business cannot misrepresent themself as being a consumer during any transaction.

I did not realise this. I’m probably like a lot of eBay business account sellers under the VAT threshold, not a ltd company, who has a separate private account to buy on eBay, whether it is packaging supplies, stock etc. 

I bought lots from an auction house today, my status as private or business isn’t something they have ever asked.. I’m just wondering how far does this rule extend? Car boots, Facebook etc..

[papso22]

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 Last sentence.  Should really say 'an ebay member', as they might only buy not sell on ebay. 

Business seller policy

On this page

• What is the policy?
• Why does eBay have this policy?
• Helpful links

  Business sellers are required to follow all government regulations, including registering as a business on eBay, and providing contact information and a return policy.

  An eBay seller must register as a business if, for example, they sell items they have bought to resell, they make items in order to sell them, or if they buy items for their business.

@magpiecorner1

[4_bathrooms]

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@technthread wrote:

I bought lots from an auction house today, my status as private or business isn’t something they have ever asked.. I’m just wondering how far does this rule extend? Car boots, Facebook etc..

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It extends to any purchases made as a business. This is due to section 148 of the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act which recently replaced the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (it was also a specific offence under the CPUTRs).

In the case of a car boot sale you wouldn't need to walk around wearing a badge identifying yourself as a trader but if you falsely gave the impression you were not attending the event in the course of your trade you would be committing an offence. For example, if you tried to barter with a seller by falsely claiming the item was for your sick relative and you could only afford £x you would be committing an offence.

In the course of online transactions you are required to identify yourself as a trader prior to, during and after any transaction taking place. Where eBay is concerned this means buying and selling through a business account as only accounts registered as businesses show the trader's details on the account's public "about" page. As Facebook has business profiles the same would apply there.       

[technthread]

Thanks for the detailed reply, that makes sense.