HELP! Obvious business seller operating on a private account!

[cocooncards]

I hate having to do this but there is a business seller operating on a private account in my category (I'm posting this on a throwaway just FYI). He's already made like a grand in a day (NO FEES!). I tried to report but the old system is gone and the new one doesn't appear to have "fee avoidance" (or similar) as an option, as far as I can tell. 

I was under the impression that all the new rules (simple delivery, BFP, selling limits etc.) were supposed to stop PRECISELY THIS from occurring!

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

where do you draw the line? We sell pre owned antiques 

Our items have probably had duty ,tax fees and costs paid on them many times over 

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Please do explain to me as to exactly what inheritance tax has to do with selling fees?
If you took items to an auctioneer, they would charge you fees for selling the items!

So is really fair that you can sell something without paying any fees?
Though frankly, nobody gets completely free listings.  Every single seller, will pay fees, whether directly to Ebay or through the BPF.  It is essentially the same thing.

Whether or not you are a business in another thing entirely.  But Ebay should listen to reason, if they are saying you are, and it is quite provable in the case of inheritance, as there will be legal documentation.

---

@jaacaa-collectibles wrote:

Is it fair that i have to pay selling fees on things that have already been calculated for Inheritance Tax? 

[4_bathrooms]

---

@jonatjonatjonat wrote:

This is where its unfair. Why have you been picked on when there are blatantly obvious actual businesses?

---

I don't understand it either.

In an email that was sent to business sellers at the start of the year announcing the introduction of Buyer Protection the following month there was this paragraph:

"We know it’s important to have a fair and equitable marketplace for all business sellers. That’s why we’re monitoring trading activities on eBay to help business sellers using a private account transition over to a business account, or restricting selling activity as necessary."

That was followed by a few posts on the boards from private sellers who had incorrectly been accused of being businesses and were being forced to "upgrade" their accounts. One I remember was someone selling off their old toy car collection; the seller only had about 20 listings - all listed as used - and there was absolutely nothing in their feedback, selling history or anything else that suggested they were or ever had been a trader. Yet there are businesses trading on private accounts with their company name either in their "about" page or as their eBay user ID with dozens of multi-quantity listings for new items who are able to carry on regardless.

It just beggars belief.

[the_book_seekers]

I think this seller has attracted the attention of ebay's bots with the number of items sold in the last year and the cost of items sold/being sold. 

[theelench]

I remember some of those posts, the one that sticks in my mind was from a new seller who had opened their first ever ebay account some months before and had only sold very few used items before being told to change to a business account.  Yes, they were higher than average priced, but as a new seller they would have had Holds put on payouts to ensure there were no problems with buyers.

What seems so inexplicable about @jaacaa-collectibles 's sales is that they are not doing anything 'suspicious', they're doing what ebay recommends private sellers should do.

As a private seller ebay takes every opportunity to tell them to "reduce your price/ allow offers/ send offers to buyers", to make their items more attractive to buyers.  This seller seems to have taken notice and listed collectables at "...great prices because they cost us nothing". 

They have great FB from happy buyers and look to be the sort of private seller ebay says it is trying to attract  --  higher priced collectables that sell regularly are one of the focus categories that ebay are 'committed' to supporting.

I wonder, is the common denominator of which private sellers are told to re-register as businesses is not the number of sales, but their value ?  So that ebay can charge them fees on future sales ?

[spence0175]

Maybe the bots picked them up because a number of their high priced items are listed/sold  as new. 

[therenewalworkshopltd]

They actually have more than half of the items listed as brand new!
That alone, pretty much says that they are a retailer.

Nobody who has bought, been donated too, inherited an item has a brand new item any longer.
They are second hand and should be sold as such.

Whilst items could be sold as "Like new", they really are no longer new!
And that really doesn't matter what the item is.

So it's not that unreasonable for Ebay to see them as a business, rather than a private seller.

[jaacaa-collectibles]

Its 100% this. We have now had to change to a business account and ebay are taking their 10% fee from us plus final listing fee.

They have purely seen the value and volume of items we are selling and thought "we want a peice of that pie".

By their own standards and rules we are not a business seller. We don't make anything to sell for profit and we dont buy items to trade. 

We arent registered as a business or sole trader and everything we have in inventory is inherited and part of the winding down of my fathers estate. I offered to provide them with grants of probate letters as proof but i just got the generic tosh of a reply that it is company policy. They then recommended i open a new account and start again which pretty much admits that they are purely doing this because of the volume and value of our sales. My dad was a collector and didnt open items to keep the condition immaculate, hence why lots of our listings are listed as 'New' or 'As new'. Not that that should be a factor in the slightest anyway as they dont have a policy statting this to be a factor.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Since when is "new", something that is second hand?

Please explain how that works?

[jaacaa-collectibles]

We sell lots of unopened items that are still in the original shrink wrap from the manufacturer with all labels intact so they are new items. 

Shops buy from wholesalers all the time and sell items as new so by your logic all those items are second hand too? 

[spence0175]

I am currently selling off some of my boxed dolls. Never opened or removed from box but in my eyes classed as used because they have not come straight from a manufacturer but been sat on a shelf for years.  I guess we all see it differently

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

Ebays game ,ebays rules

They are not a democracy or a public service

Ebays  ethos has always been if you dont like it you can lump it

[jonatjonatjonat]

No - because a shop is the one providing any guarantee to the eventual end consumer - they aren't buying that product to in effect get some sort of enjoyment out of it.

Your products, they were at some point purchased with no express intent to sell it on. The fact they were not opened them is neither here nor there - they are second hand goods. The original guarantee no longer exists.

I would agree with this - I would never personally try to claim a decades old book is 'New'

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Buying a new item as a private individual makes it second hand.

Buying a new item as part of a valid supply chain, maintains the fact that the item is new.

The retailer doing so, has to cover any claims/returns etc whereas the private individual, can wash their hands of it.

What the item it is, really doesn't matter.  But this is especially valid, when your talking about items with warranties.

The moment a private individual buys that kind of item, they cannot pass on the warranty.  The retailer can.

[theelench]

Ebay's bots might just trawl through sales looking for Brand New or Pre-owned  and because they have sold many items as New decide they are a business.  But you have already told @jaacaa-collectibles  that their items cannot possibly be New as they were bought and later inherited by the seller.

"They actually have over half their items listed as Brand New !

That alone pretty much says they are a retailer" 

But as you know they are in fact second-hand and cannot possibly be new where does that leave your contention that they are a business ?   Over half of their listings, by your own statements are not New but Used,  plus even more that you found that were not listed as New.  So they are selling overwhelmingly Pre-Owned items.

You, being a business, know all the technicalities surrounding the terms New and Pre-Owned.  Most non-business sellers don't, so I'll quote you the definition according to ebay as stated on every listing and which a private seller might rely on when deciding whether or not to sell an item as New.

NEW:   "A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item.  See sellers listing for details."

PRE-OWNED:   "An item that has been previously used.  See seller's description for full details & description of any imperfections."

So keeping in mind that you regularly tell private sellers "It's ebay's site and ebay's rules"  tell us again whether the seller is selling New or Used goods and is or is not a business.  You can't have it both ways.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Don't be ridiculous.

If an item is listed as New, then it should be new.

You cannot have it both ways as you seem to think.

They either list correctly or not.  End of.

So if they are and this has been established selling items as New, when they are not in fact New, they are misrepresenting what they are selling.
But if Ebay are checking for things like this, what exactly do you expect them to do?
As the seller for every single listing that is "new", whether in fact it actually is new?
Or maybe they will employ the new mind ray they have invented to work this out!

As to saying regularly "It's ebays site and ebays rules", I can't remember the last time I did so.

Other than the last couple of days, I haven't even posted on the forum for months!

Get your facts right