FAO Ebay staff - Reporting businesses trading on private accounts

[howmuchtobid]

To whom it may concern.

It's about time it was made easier for Ebay users to be able to report businesses trading on private accounts in a much more straight forward way.  At the moment there is no obvious option when using the report item option, i.e. there is no business trading on a private account option.

I and many other business sellers/Ebay users have spent a lot of time reporting blatant business sellers on private accounts however we are often wasting our time as all we get is a pointless AI response which simply isn't good enough.

This is something that needs to be introduced urgently as it will help legitimate business sellers survive and hopefully flourish, also in many ways it will be of great benefit to Ebay. It will also help Ebay's image as having so many illegal sellers on the platform is not a good look.

Can someone from Ebay please confirm they have seen this, thank you.

[howmuchtobid]

It's literally become a free for all for businesses trading on private accounts. I don't see any evidence whatsoever that Ebay is getting it under control, it's totally out of control and it seems to be getting worse by the day.

I hate to think what has happened to Ebay UK's income since the beginning of October. 

[yvonnshepher54]

So today  I asked to speak to someone as I have invested lots of time, money, energy into building a vintage clothing business on Ebay all for it to crumble due to 

1. Ebay giving private sellers free listings

2. So many businesses registering as private sellers 

I cant compete with them and really feel unsupported by Ebay, after years of paying Ebay's inflated fees really feels like me and others playing by the rules (and keeping Ebay afloat) are just not considered.

I was told, why do you not just become a private seller by the Ebay rep and stop being registered as a business.

I explained to him that I buy to sell so what he is telling me to do is illegal and is very bad advice. Granted the person was calling from Berlin but if Ebay are employing staff telling them to do this what hope is there that they will sort their house out.

[lupo-store]

It would be interesting to hear the moderators owes on this

[papso22]

kat@ebay 

Another one for you?

[dch2112011]

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@yvonnshepher54 wrote:

"I was told, why do you not just become a private seller by the Ebay rep and stop being registered as a business."

Now why am I not in the least surprised at ebay telling you this gem of advice - 

The potential consequences are passed to you - ebay work on the simple premise that all responsibility is the seller's  as to whether they declare themselves as a personal or business seller, they will therefore wash their hands, shrug their shoulders, chew their gum, smile and repeat the company line if anyone points you out as a business trading on a personal account that your listings do not violate their policy

Then if one day they restrict your account they will wash their hands, shrug their shoulders, chew their gum smile and repeat the company line that they have done this to keep ebay a safe place and you have violated their policy ! 

Note they apply one to the listing which they say is ok and the second to the member which isn't ok. 

Such is life on ebay !

[dch2112011]

One of the problems with ebay and many other large corporate bodies is releasing information on a 'need to know' basis. 

This not only applies to it's 'customers / members' but also to it's employees and associates.

You will therefore get categoric denials from well meaning ebay representatives primed to do so.

ebay like every corporate body will deny any change is taking place until they are ready to go live or announce an upcoming change.

Suspicion has been quelled by the official denials but murmerings of changes continue to leak from ebay -

This points to ebay changing something

In ebay world they are very selective as to who hears and knows what and how much of any change they are privy to -  members will always be bottom of the need to know pile ! 

So maybe concierge are passing on the snippet they know in good faith - ebay are in complete denial and as for 'training'  is it paranoia that something is being leaked and that they need to plug the hole ? Who knows ?

[the_book_seekers]

I was told, why do you not just become a private seller by the Ebay rep and stop being registered as a business.

Not the first time a business seller has received this kind of advice from customer services.  It's really poor that ebay hasn't got hold of their staff advising sellers to break laws in this country.

[dch2112011]

Putting 2 and 2 together and not necessarily gettig 4  - it looks like ebay leave any policing of illegal trading to trading standards with whom they have an agreement to remove any listings and sanction any account within two hours of being notified .

This may then in ebay's eyes be enough to let member's open and trade on whatever account type they want leaving the responsibilities of legality to the member and other outside bodies.

So  to suggest to a seller to change from business to personal sets the seed for the decision to change with the member  or maybe the CS agents just feel it is wrong that ebay tie their hands to stop any action being taken and are that fed up they make the suggestion to try and help the member remonstrating

[papso22]

No  corporation can absolve itself from responsibility when it is actively encouraging an illegal activity.

Where did you get that information about Ebay's relationship with Trading Standards from?

[rigged_out]

Westminster Trading Standards are the primary authority for eBay. They can remove listings immediately without waiting for eBay if they are illegal or unsafe. They have access through regulatory portal. 

[dch2112011]

The information came from the Government sponsored paper on trading standards and online platforms , it is stated that ebay voluntarily agreed to remove listings and take action against members reported to them by Tading Standards within 2 hours.

The main topic was the sale of unsafe unregulated goods via the platforms, the platforms responsibilities, the avoidance of VAT, businesses posing as private individuals, avoidance of consumer rights - resulting in the responses from ebay, Amazon, - interestingly facebook was identified as the worst offender.

The conclusion was a raft of measures and recommendations - some of which we can see being implemented.  It explained how trading standards took action - but admitted that trading standards would do very little to enforce businesses pretending to be private individuals unless a consumer had been affected -

They were struggling with recommendation for consumer rights - pushing the responsibility onto the platforms  and recommending that the subject of rogue trading and platforms were included in the national curriculum  to educate teenagers on how to spot the rogues on the platforms

[dch2112011]

Here is the link - takes some reading but interesting none the less

https://www.tradingstandards.uk/media/3180382/online-marketplace-reportfinal.pdf 

[dch2112011]

Figure 5: EU Consumer
Protection Pledge
There are now 11 international signatories to the EU’s Consumer Protection Pledge45 including eBay, Amazon and AliExpress and other European platforms.
The pledge includes commitments to: 
Remove identified problem listings on their platform within two working days 
Cooperate with market surveillance authorities
Provide a single contact point for Member States’ authorities to notify dangerous products

Figure 7: eBay’s Product Safety Initiative
eBay’s Product Safety Initiative focuses on the following three elements:
Fastest possible removal of listings offering unsafe products - eBay has launched the Regulatory Portal that removes listings reported by regulators within two hours. This is a significant improvement compared to the
two working days required by the EU Product
Safety Pledge.
Proactive identification of non-compliant products - eBay has launched its CE Audit Program in which it requests CEmark documentation from sellers for their products and validates the documents.
Improved communication between regulators and online marketplaces - eBay, among other
marketplaces, has provided feedback to the European Commission what information needs to be included in a safety alert in order to allow identification of the products. This has resulted in the European Commission issuing a template for safety alerts.
Act against repeat offenders
Prevent reappearance of dangerous product listings
A ‘notice and takedown’ mechanism
Proactive monitoring of recall sites
Additional commitments regarding recalls, transparency and trader education.

[papso22]

Thank you, that's very interesting.   I think the National Curriculum one might already be in place.

[nutrafituk]

@dch2112011  that is some information, well done. It can you used directly against ebay being reluctant to take actions - just as a reminder of their obligations. That is exactly the issue with them. Not enough, they allow certain activities to happen despite breaching their policies and UK regulations / law. When reported they either turn a blind eye, respond with 'all good here' AI rubbish or even worse by an agent - very rarely anything gets done properly.

Now all this misinformation... Ebay is a private business, and just like any other is subject (or rather should be) to scrutiny. They can literally say and anything they feel like - we have endless number of examples with us. When talking to an agent, 'so-called' expert or concierge team you just never know what to expect. Depending who you talk to you get different answers and advice. And that is where they should be held responsible as you rely on that information. You run a business and are expected to comply with their policies, the very same ones they ignore... It is a fact that ebay benefits financially from all those sales that are in breach of their policies and other binding regulations, and they do keep the fee proceedings or at least used to from a private sale. Not just that, any sale that is not run through a business account is not a subject to corporate tax or VAT where applicable. Also ebay is not tax on these as there is no profit reported. Also, each and every business account must have a public liability insurance so those quasi-private accounts do not do that. Going further, if there is a purchase made from a private account a buyer does not get any protection they would have as per consumer laws so by allowing that ebay prevents customers from having their rights protected. Seriously, I could go here all day long with this just adding more points and stories.

You mentioned some sort of arrangment that ebay has with Trading Standards - ebay should get looked into thoroughly to start with. 

[dch2112011]

That's interesting about the national curriculum - it has to be a good thing making youngsters aware of the problems but I also wonder if it is just shifting responsibility onto future consumers.

Any way  my knowledge of the national curriculum is less than limited !

[dave@ebay]

Hi @papso22 

Kat is off today but Ive escalated this to have the call listened to. 

Thanks,

Dave

[dave@ebay]

Hi @yvonnshepher54 

As you have said, Customer Support should not be advising an sellers to change to a private account to continue selling.

I’ve escalated this to Customer Support to have the call listened to by one of our coaching team. Once the call is reviewed, the coach will take any necessary action if an agent is found to be giving wrong advice on calls.

Thanks,

Dave

[therenewalworkshopltd]

 Not just that, any sale that is not run through a business account is not a subject to corporate tax or VAT where applicable. Also ebay is not tax on these as there is no profit reported. Also, each and every business account must have a public liability insurance so those quasi-private accounts do not do that. 

Sorry, but the above is simply not true.

Just because a sale goes through a private account, does not meant this it is not subject to corporate tax or VAT.  That's just a matter of actually reporting the sale in your accounts.  Nothing to do with Ebay at all.

And no, each and every business does not have to have public liability insurance.  It's something that any sensible business will have, but it's certainly not a requirement.

And even if an account is a private account, there is absolutely no reason why the seller could not have the insurance anyway.  It has nothing to do with how things are sold.

The only real legal issues with a business trading on a private account, are misrepresentation, along with not following consumer law.  

[nutrafituk]

Just because a sale goes through a private account, does not meant this it is not subject to corporate tax or VAT. That's just a matter of actually reporting the sale in your accounts. Nothing to do with Ebay at all.

Public liability insurance is not legally required in the UK, but it is highly recommended for businesses and individuals who interact with the public. It can protect you from claims for injury or property damage made by members of the public, customers, or clients.Here are some circumstances where public liability insurance might be required:Clients insist on it: Many clients will require proof of public liability insurance before working with you.Trade associations require it: Some trade associations will not allow you to register with them unless you have public liability insurance.

Contracts require it:

Local government or council contracts often require proof of public liability insurance.

You employ staff: You need employers' liability insurance, even if they are volunteers.

You work in a regulated profession: Certain regulated professions may require public liability insurance.

Offers here are made here to public hence it should be mandatory if sold via business - as apparently ebay cares for their safety and is supposed to keep the marketplace safe.

Not just that, any sale that is not run through a business account is not a subject to corporate tax or VAT where applicable. Also ebay is not tax on these as there is no profit reported. Also, each and every business account must have a public liability insurance so those quasi-private accounts do not do that. 

Sorry, but the above is simply not true.

True: if a private account does not pay fees despite being a business that means ebay does not make a profit - no turnover here. If they did ebay's revenue would have been subject to both corporate tax and VAT as they are registered. You cannot tax '0' - simple.