FAO Ebay staff - Reporting businesses trading on private accounts

[howmuchtobid]

To whom it may concern.

It's about time it was made easier for Ebay users to be able to report businesses trading on private accounts in a much more straight forward way.  At the moment there is no obvious option when using the report item option, i.e. there is no business trading on a private account option.

I and many other business sellers/Ebay users have spent a lot of time reporting blatant business sellers on private accounts however we are often wasting our time as all we get is a pointless AI response which simply isn't good enough.

This is something that needs to be introduced urgently as it will help legitimate business sellers survive and hopefully flourish, also in many ways it will be of great benefit to Ebay. It will also help Ebay's image as having so many illegal sellers on the platform is not a good look.

Can someone from Ebay please confirm they have seen this, thank you.

[bravergrace]

Thank you for your replies.  I'm not wasting my time on a Canute exercise.  I know there have always been unregistered business sellers on eBay.  The problem this is, is the sheer scale of the problem. 

I've been trying to buy some clothing on eBay this week.

Specific items, specific brand.

There are about three dozen sellers with stocks of these items for sale as "Brand new with tags".

Only two of them are business sellers - and one of those "doesn't accept returns" (and has the feedback to prove that he really, really doesn't accept returns).  Unsurprisingly, the "private" sellers are undercutting them.

This means that, while it is perfectly possible to buy these items on eBay, it is virtually impossible to buy them from someone who is trading legally.  Illegal traders outnumber legal traders by 18 to 1.

I know that eBay had a bit of a blitz a few months ago, but I suspect that the main result was the unregistered clothing businesses have each opened several replacement private accounts, to keep the level of sales below eBay's AI radar.  It certainly doesn't seem to have led to more business accounts.

I'd say it's now virtually impossible for honest small traders in the clothing category.  Because we're not just competing against big traders, or other small traders - we're competing MAINLY against blatant fee-free, return-free fraud which eBay simply refuse to acknowledge or deal with.

(I don't count the restricted access to the multi-discount tool as a serious attempt at restricting the activities of these cowboys.)

[555njp]

It’s always been a problem on eBay but I agree more recently it’s the scale of the problem that’s causing everyone issues.
It’s like anything in society that’s left unchecked, people will take advantage.

However, with everything else going on with the site I really do think something has to change pretty early next year or it will implode.

Fingers crossed for 2025 🤞

[the-nutwood-collection]

I know there have always been unregistered business sellers on eBay.  The problem this is, is the sheer scale of the problem. 

Exactly.  eBay just didn't think through the scenario of free fees.  They thought that, by attracting new sellers, these sellers would spend their new wealth on eBay.  What has happened is that business sellers who never previously sold on eBay have joined up in droves as private sellers - and those that sold on eBay as a business have opened private accounts.  They've undercut fee-paying business sellers and the result has been traffic - and no revenue.  Costly data centres, growling away processing zillions of non-fee transactions.  I bet they weep when they get the electricity bill.

Unregistered business sellers were a minor problem, eBay's lack of foresight has turned it into a major disaster.

In Birmingham, we have a saying - 'If it's free, bring a bucket' - and that's what's happened.  Bucket lines stretching around the block.  I just can't understand why eBay couldn't foresee this.  If a landlord offered a choice of two adjacent shops, same footfall, one to rent, the other free - why would anyone choose to pay rent?  That's exactly what eBay have offered with fee-free.

My opinion is that eBay are expecting/hoping that the changes in the pipeline for Q1 are going to solve the whole sorry mess.  That's why they're not doing anything meaningful about private sellers.  They're just tinkering around the edges, banning multi-buy (or whatever it is they've done), and are now in their bunker, tin hats on, hoping that the bombardment will end in Q1.

A new dawn for business sellers - and investors - in Q1?  We shall see. 

[the_book_seekers]

It's not been helped by customers services telling unhappy business sellers to open a private account to sell their stuff.  

[davrman]

"It's not been helped by customers services telling unhappy business sellers to open a private account to sell their stuff. "

Isn't that conspiracy to defraud? Perhaps we should report eBay to Trading Standards...

[the_book_seekers]

It's been reported several times on these boards. There is a crime of inciting someone to commit a criminal offence, however ebay's staff passing this advice are in another country which makes it notoriously difficult/impossible to deal with. Getting to find out where their instructions have come from will be just as difficult. 

[iglassmobilephones]

Im trying to report a private seller whose obviously operating as a business judging by his stock. I cannot find the 'avoiding Ebay fees' option under the report an item link. After clicking 'Submit report' I'm left with two options ('member or shop information' OR 'Product or Listing). 'Member or shop information' sounds logical. Then I enter the member's username to verify. After that the drop down menu contains options which have nothing to do with 'avoiding ebay fees'. The options are 1)  Communication abuse 2) Innapropriate Content or 3) Intellectual Property (IP) Infringement. 

Any idea where I to find the 'avoiding ebay fees' option?

[myriad*seller]

Are you reporting on .co.uk?

Are you perhaps reporting via the report a seller button, as those options don't exist if you report via the item listing which is the report method described above by other posters

[gemini-project]

The only option is ( until its removed soon)

Report this item, just above the item description

Listing practices

Avoiding eBay fees

Other ways of avoiding eBay fees

Fill in what ever you want, eBay will ignore it, you will either get nothing back, we didn't find anything wrong or if you report the same seller enough you will get a warning. 

Good luck you will need it.

[iglassmobilephones]

Thanks a lot I found it!

FYI everyone I thought I would share this great example of a private seller clearly trading to make a profit as a business seller. Copy and past 'Apple iPhone 13 Pro - 512GB - Graphite (Unlocked) NO FACE ID' in to search. The seller has 598 feedback scores and should be near the top of the search. 

Let me reveal the data on this seller I found.

Current Number of items listed: 30 Smartphones (mainly iPhones from IPhone 11 to IPhone 14 Pro Max.

Current Value of Stock: £10,333

Number of Sales in the last 90 days: 119

Total Value of sales in the last 90 days: £37,277

Total Fee avoidance over the last 90 days (assuming 6.9% + VAT) - £3000 approx

Projected 12 month Turnover from previous 90 days: £148,000

Projected Fee Avoidance should he, she, they continue to operate as a private seller: £12,450. 

If this does not illustrate a business seller masquerading as a private seller then I dont know what does!

Its not just the numbers that is revealing but the language in the listings. At the bottom it states and quote: "Since 2018, we have proudly been selling mobile phones on eBay, establishing ourselves as a trusted source for quality devices. Our commitment to excellence means that every phone we sell undergoes rigorous testing and thorough checking to guarantee its functionality in every aspect. No private seller would write this and no private seller would use the pronoun WE. 

I have searched the Mobile phone category for suspicious private sellers and this one of the worst. Needless to say I have reported them and based on recommendations from other uses on here I specifically cited Ebay policies and declared all these numbers so that the AI software can hopefully detect an issue.

Fingers crossed!

[lupo-store]

Please see the below link:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/reporting-rules-for-digital-platforms

looks like eBay have until the end of January to ensure all private accounts have their NI number on their account and they have reported their sales to HMRC. Failure to have an NI number on the account will mean that they are non-compliant and I can only assume eBay will block funds (I have seen other threads on the forums re this).

if eBay fail to provide this info to HMRC the penalty is upto £100 per account.

i am still seeing Chinese sellers who have taken over U.K. private accounts active but will monitor these closely over the coming weeks.

They are highly unlikely to be able to get an NI number and if they do the person who sold

the account (against eBay rules) will get chased for tax. If they in turn say they sold the account are they still liable? Are eBay liable for lax KYC checks? Is the Chinese seller liable?

Something brown is about to hit the fan

[555njp]

If it’s anything like GPSR then I suspect it’ll be a great big fuss over nothing.

I also think eBay has left it as late as possible knowing they are likely to lose a lot of sellers when they request a NINO.
However, the impact will be far less now as private sellers aren’t paying any fees….!

So, why hasn’t this happened?

Both my business and private accounts when through both thresholds by March of last year.

Have I been asked…….NO?

I do think it could be interesting in the coming weeks though……?

[vintique*violet]

What qualifies as a digital platform

Your app or website is a platform if both these apply:

• it connects sellers to customers to supply goods or services
• you know or can easily find out the amount paid to sellers for goods or services

Examples of services include: 

• taxi and private hire 
• food delivery 
• finding freelance work 
• letting of short-term accommodation

These rules do not apply if you only:

• sell on a platform
• manage a platform as a sole trader
• sell your goods or services directly through your own website or app

If you’re a seller, you can find out how the reporting rules affect selling goods or services on a digital platform.

Can someone please expand on the rules which do not apply... ie. Sell on a platform...I am assuming this means that if you sell you do not need to report as the website/platform " owner" does it for you?  How kind?!? However I do find it ambiguous  " only sell on a platform" is saying no rules apply... isn't that what we are doing? 

The link also holds important information ... such as "You’re unlikely to pay tax if you sell personal items from your home, like contents of a loft or garage"

Plus any platform such as eBay etc must give you a copy of what they are reporting and who to  ie. HMRC. 

Edit . link.. 

[lupo-store]

My understanding is that these digital platforms are such as the following:

eBay

Onbuy

Etsy

Vinted

Debop

Uber

Ubereats

Deliveroo

Justeat

Airbnb

Booking.com

Vrbo

And any other such platform which connects sellers and buyers, whom some are 'private' and potentially not declaring their incomes.  Thats the reason they are asking for NI numbers.  That way all earnings go into their 'Connect' supercomputer and that finds out if you have cumulatively exceeded 'private' sales thresholds and at that stage you need to explain if the sales were from 'clearing an attic' etc or buying to sell at a profit, providing a service 

[lupo-store]

I have just read the Government website again about this.  One thing I did notice was as follows:

Extended time limits for due diligence on pre-existing sellers:
When you first become a reporting platform operator, you have until the end of the second year to complete due diligence for pre-existing sellers, who are those who have been registered on your platform before you had to start reporting.

This gives you an extra year to collect and verify information for pre-existing sellers.

If you do this, you’ll need to add a reporting notification in the online reporting service to tell HMRC.

For example, if a platform operator becomes subject to the reporting rules on 1 July 2024, its first reportable period is 2024.

The date by which it must complete due diligence is:

31 December 2024 for sellers who registered on or after 1 July 2024
31 December 2025 for sellers who registered before 1 July 2024

This means that there maybe some older 'private' accounts hanging around for a bit longer as eBay have until the end of 2025 to ensure they have NI numbers

[howmuchtobid]

This situation continues to be an absolute joke, the ebay community team keep saying action is being taken and we may not be able to see it, this is clearly not correct.

All I am seeing is private sellers taking the mick out of ebay and genuine business sellers.

2025 is going to very interesting as if ebay keeps up with the approach they currently have the UK platform is going to have considerable financial issues, I guess you reap what you sow so ebay deserves any issues coming their way.

[iglassmobilephones]

Ebay are commiting suicide. I have come across sellers who have exceeded the VAT threshold of £90,000 turnover in 3 months and yet they are continuing to sell as 'Private' and with no VAT number.

Ebay has become an absolute farce. This I have no doubt will end in tears. 

[dch2112011]

Be fair ebay are taking action - they are going to make money out of them !

Not sure this is the action anticipated but it vindicates the repeated reassurance from the 'team' that ebay are taking action !  

Not sure this reassures genuine businesses and personal sellers but you can't state the 'team were lying - just ommitting that ebay intend to take action against buyers to benefit from the businesses trading on private selling accounts -oh and at the same time sweep the genuine private selling accounts into the same fee structure !

This is the problem when  ebay say anything - you never know what it actually means !

[gemini-project]

I reported someone displaying fake details, CRN number 0000000 , eBay didn't find anything wrong 🤣

[zenfre6]

😅It's like a Dark Quentin Tarantino Comedy! Some business on here have said that ebay have warned them for reporting private registered accounts who are clearly business!! REALLY! Its reminds me of a scene in Series 4 of Blackadder where he was recalling a case of one of history's most brilliant Lawyers - Massingbird. The case was called 'the Case of the Bloody Knife': A man was found next to a murdered body. He had the knife in his hand. 13 witnesses had seen him stab the victim. And when the police arrived, he said "I'm glad I killed the "bas*ard." Massingbird not only got him off; he got him knighted in the New Year's Honours List. And the relatives of the victim had to pay to wash the blood out of his jacket! 😅😅

I feel like if I set up a private account with the username 'I_am_business123', write in big capital letters in my listing 'Thank you for buying from my BUSINESS' I would get away with it! 😅😅