FAO Ebay staff - Reporting businesses trading on private accounts

[howmuchtobid]

To whom it may concern.

It's about time it was made easier for Ebay users to be able to report businesses trading on private accounts in a much more straight forward way.  At the moment there is no obvious option when using the report item option, i.e. there is no business trading on a private account option.

I and many other business sellers/Ebay users have spent a lot of time reporting blatant business sellers on private accounts however we are often wasting our time as all we get is a pointless AI response which simply isn't good enough.

This is something that needs to be introduced urgently as it will help legitimate business sellers survive and hopefully flourish, also in many ways it will be of great benefit to Ebay. It will also help Ebay's image as having so many illegal sellers on the platform is not a good look.

Can someone from Ebay please confirm they have seen this, thank you.

[pg_kicks]

Whilst I'd love to believe the agent you spoke to I think the terrible illness that the outsourced call centres have been suffering from for the past few years has sadly got into Dublin. I spoke to a manager in concierge (after 3 failed promises of calls backs) on Friday who told me that the 15 accounts I sent him all selling multiple trainers all different sizes, multiple quantities and all brand new were not a business. In his words eBay don't see them as a business unless they are selling above a figure of around £50k-£80k, he promised a call back on Monday (shock it never came) to clarify this figure. It seems like concierge have the same skill of telling us whatever we wish to hear to get us off the phone. 

£1000 pa is a pitiful low amount, I could sell 1 pair of trainers from my personal collection and it would go over the amount. I've said is hundreds of times all they need to do is have a option on the report as business operating on private account, have a human to check it who knows the law, it might take them weeks or months (it shouldnt) but then they'd actually be showing people they are stopping it and less new accounts will appear as they will know it will be stopped. Instead they claim to do stuff behind the curtain with no proof being provided and still wont have an option on the reporting system.

I will probably get a call now and apologise for the fact they didnt call me back on Monday and they will say its not the service they try and give but sadly this is the service we are getting as again any complaints are done behind the curtain with no feedback/update given to the person making the complaint.

[moldosgifts]

Should be easy spotting illegal tradesr with 10 items of new stuff they are clearing out of the shed (Honest guv)

Its the second hand trader that will be harder.

If you inheritted should be easy to prove the will or probate docs should cover that (copy)

A vast collection shoul dbe fairly easy it'll all be the same theme so coin or stamp collector will have 1 of everything 1000s of everything. All sthe same stuff not thing.

So i dont understand why its left to us to find these sellers its easy for me should be even easier for ebay

[pg_kicks]

It will be harder but I'd still not say its exactly hard, you just have to use balance of probability, granted some will be in the grey area and they might be forced to upgrade, but theres never going to be a 100% sure way so currently its thousands of sales are done by accounts breaking eBay policy and breaking the law or be strict and hundreds (at most) accounts need to offer returns, pay for the site and give a bit more information if they wish to continue selling their many hundreds of items whilst they are not a business. If I was running a site I'd be trying my best to make sure as many accounts as possible were not breaking the law.

[rainbowtrax]

Well, reading today's weekly chat, it would appear that the concierge person was lying.

[dch2112011]

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@rainbowtrax wrote:

Well, reading today's weekly chat, it would appear that the concierge person was lying.

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Not How I read it - it was mainly waffle about some private accounts being sanctioned - lots of different factors - not allowed to tell you what they are  etc and then a  not aware of monetary limit - not a categoric denial then a we will check what concierge are telling people - a load of meaningless pacifying phrases - 

[lupo-store]

I have had two separate concierge agents state today that they are entering a different phase regarding sanctions against business is on private accounts.  

I am hopeful that they are correct and the weekly chat was just waffle

[rainbowtrax]

I'm hopeful that they're incorrect and they'll be basing their criteria on something more sensible than sales value alone. Sellers are also buyers and I don't want a large proportion of them driven away to Vinted, Facebook Marketplace etc as, if they stop selling here, they are likely to stop buying here. 

I want the problem dealt with but I want it done properly, not at the expense of a large pool of potential buyers who are genuine private sellers.

[papso22]

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@lupo-store wrote:

I have had two separate concierge agents state today that they are entering a different phase regarding sanctions against business is on private accounts.  

I am hopeful that they are correct and the weekly chat was just waffle

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Sanctions yes, arbitrary and baseless financial limts, no.

[pg_kicks]

I spoke to the manager, seems you were correct as he apologised and was getting confused with the VAT level and the level eBay have decided to ask accounts to upgrade. I did mention that £1000 isnt exactly a large amount as 1 pair of trainers could go over that and he will pass it on but it seems what you were told and me today is correct. He did say he would send me an email with a link showing where it says it on the help pages so once I get that I will post it unless somebody finds it before me but I'm currently watching the football nervously ha.

Again they all do read these boards and find out most of the issues from us so I once again asked for a business seller in person forum to be arranged with eBay managers where we could give honest and constructive feedback as a website thats working well is a benefit for us both.

Just to add he mentioned it was £1250 not £1000 not that it makes much difference but thought I'd mention it.

[dch2112011]

No smoke without fire springs to mind - it seems from what concierge told you and from  the 'community team' guarded hints  something is afoot. 

It makes sense that volume and value are the only measures that can be used to determine ebay account usage - simply because the solution has to be simple and easy to administer by AI when initially vetting the huge number of accounts on ebay and even then it will take time for AI to work through them all.

You have to consider that account usage is determined by ebay for ebay and that 'business' and 'personal' in ebay terms do not necessarily carry a legal definition  

[pg_kicks]

I agree its got to be simple but I feel £1250 is too simple, it would really shake up a lot of the businesses on private accounts but the cross over of actual private accounts would be high too and surely thats a big kick in the nuts for eBay who require as many genuine private accounts as possible. If I was asked I'd have said £2500 or 50 items, those seem a bit more realistic for me but even those would catch genuine private sellers, but if you are selling above a certain amount I believe you should have to pay.

I was also told they have new software for IP catching to stop people from using multiple accounts, not got a clue how it would work or how easy but it does sound like eBay are trying to get their site into some sort of working order. No idea if its the lose of income from free for private or the new EU regulations that private accounts dont need to adhere to, hopefully its a fair and safe site soon.

[lupo-store]

The new software to catch IP addresses is probably because I have flagged up the Chinese sellers who have infiltrated U.K. private accounts in order to evade vat taken at source.

come to think of it one concierge member did say they are getting 'new ways' to catch connected private accounts recently

[papso22]

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@dch2112011 wrote:

No smoke without fire springs to mind - it seems from what concierge told you and from  the 'community team' guarded hints  something is afoot. 

It makes sense that volume and value are the only measures that can be used to determine ebay account usage - simply because the solution has to be simple and easy to administer by AI when initially vetting the huge number of accounts on ebay and even then it will take time for AI to work through them all.

You have to consider that account usage is determined by ebay for ebay and that 'business' and 'personal' in ebay terms do not necessarily carry a legal definition  

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But the ebay policy pages on business vs personal accounts are all about legal regulations and so don't depend on value.

If ebay are going to get members on to the right accounts they should use legal definitions (buy or make to sell) and not make something up because it's easier to manage.  Especially as the only reason they need an easy solution is because they have turned a blind eye for so long.

It would be highly immoral of ebay to use a value benchmark to give genuine private sellers the choice of masquerading as a business, with all the ramifications that comes with,  or stopping selling.

[pg_kicks]

I think a value in either terms of pounds or items would probably be the right way, maybe dont call them private or business just basically have them as A and B a but B has to do everything a business does legally, if you use the site over a certain level you should be expected to pay. There is no 100% way of saying an account is a business, we can all be 99.9999% sure but some people use shop, inc, trader in usernames and the about us to sound like a business when they arent, I just think £1250 a year is pretty low but also might not catch some businesses who only sell £5 items. Its never going to make everyone happy but I'm happy to see eBay finally working on it, my feedback has been passed back that I think the limit is low. Considering how much I've complained about it for me to say the limit is low should be a bold statement.

[*vyolla*]

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@pg_kicks wrote:

I spoke to the manager, seems you were correct as he apologised and was getting confused with the VAT level and the level eBay have decided to ask accounts to upgrade. I did mention that £1000 isnt exactly a large amount as 1 pair of trainers could go over that and he will pass it on but it seems what you were told and me today is correct. He did say he would send me an email with a link showing where it says it on the help pages so once I get that I will post it unless somebody finds it before me but I'm currently watching the football nervously ha.

Again they all do read these boards and find out most of the issues from us so I once again asked for a business seller in person forum to be arranged with eBay managers where we could give honest and constructive feedback as a website thats working well is a benefit for us both.

Just to add he mentioned it was £1250 not £1000 not that it makes much difference but thought I'd mention it.

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As there isn't anything on the eBay guidance pages that even vaguely says that, I believe that somebody has got their wires crossed somewhere (perhaps with the reporting figure to HMRC, which is higher but my money's on that being the source of some confusion here), and it's like one of those FaceBook myths that, once somebody gets something wrong it becomes fact after being discussed a few times).

[dch2112011]

Absolutely the right idea lose the account titles, they are personal to ebay and cause confusion, even current ebay policy for the accounts states that volume sales should be conducted through the business account which is an internal ebay requirement written well before HMRC  reporting limits 

[*vyolla*]

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@pg_kicks wrote:

I was also told they have new software for IP catching to stop people from using multiple accounts, not got a clue how it would work or how easy but it does sound like eBay are trying to get their site into some sort of working order. No idea if its the lose of income from free for private or the new EU regulations that private accounts dont need to adhere to, hopefully its a fair and safe site soon.

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Software to do that has been around for over a decade, and it's always been the case that eBay can check IPs, but as most home IP addresses are dynamic it's never been that great. I'm not aware that there's anything new, and as eBay can't even spot a word in a title for a prohibited item I have no great faith that they've invented some new software. 

I think that this is all verbal virtual signalling to make up for the fact that they could never accept that the private seller who has been listing and selling hundreds of pairs of brand new trainers in varying brands and sizes for  years, making over £20k p.a and enjoying discounted FVFs during this time might just be a business. Makes me laugh when some of the clothing sellers mention in their listing descriptions their website where they've been selling clothes for years. eBay don't even have the software to spot that sentence.

I do not, for the life of me, believe that eBay are suddenly going to go from wild west for business sellers masquerading as private sellers to a £1,250 cap or whatever figure is being bandied about. I believe that wires are being crossed and the rumour mill is running. 

[kempseykate]

Well, if it's £1000 or £1200 that will be me gone - I won't be registering as a business when I'm not one.
The unregistered business sellers will probably stay and register (finally!), but the proper private sellers will most likely leave taking with them lots of quirky/unusual/hard to find items that many come to this site for. They will also probably stop buying on here. (If ebay tell me to register as a business, when I'm not, I won't be buying on here.)

So when all the registered business sellers are putting the flags out that the competition is now either still competition (but registered) or gone, they need to ask themselves was it worth it if the buyers have gone elsewhere? (Ebay need to think about that as well.)

[lupo-store]

Just been alerted to this.  Its been posted today on Linkedin by a well respected FCA Accountant.

 

[*vyolla*]

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@lupo-store wrote:

Just been alerted to this.  Its been posted today on Linkedin by a well respected FCA Accountant.

 

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He's slow to the party then -  this has been discussed to death in eBay Community and other consumer forums and the media during the past year.  Nothing to do with being registered as a business or private seller, just what the onlione platforms will be reporting to HMRC. 

eBay will pass on data to HMRC automatically if you're selling 30 or more items a year OR have total earnings over the equivalent of £1,740. eBay will automatically share this information with HMRC by 31 January 2025.

This eBay guidance page covers it:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/account/regulatory/uk-digital-sales-reporting?id=5454&st=3&pos=1&query=U...