Ebay asking for my Nat Ins Number

[lights-camera-actionuk]

I have had a e mail for E Bay asking for my national Insurance number so i can contiunue to sell on e bay

 I am a registered business and have been for over 20 years

 I am VAT registered and have been for over 15 years with my VAT number oin my  e bay account

I pay an accountant to do my accounts of my sales on ebay  every 3 month and now this 

I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT GIVING MY NAT INSURANCE NUMBER TO E BAY, and there is no mention of it being safe   wit E Bay   im furious

[jckl1957]

The tax laws did not change in 2024.  The only change was that it became obligatory for online platforms to report the sales of their sellers to HMRC when those sellers met certain thresholds.

If you genuinely did not have a tax liability before 2024, then you don't have one now.  If you were buying to sell on rather than selling your own unwanted possessions, you have always had to pay tax and should have been completing a self-assessment.

This is from gov.uk - a press release headlined:

No tax changes for online sellers

• Online platforms to start sharing some user sales and personal data with HMRC from January 2025
• HMRC confirms there are no changes to tax rules for people selling their unwanted possessions online
• Guidance for online sellers can be found on GOV.UK

  People selling unwanted items online can continue to do so with confidence and without any new tax obligations, HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has confirmed.

  The reminder comes as online platforms start sharing sales data with HMRC from January 2025 – a new process that, when announced last year, generated inaccurate claims that a new tax was being introduced.

  But whether selling last year’s festive jumper, getting some money back for a child’s outgrown baby clothes, or quietly offloading an unwanted Christmas present or two – absolutely nothing has changed for online sellers.

  https://www.gov.uk/government/news/no-tax-changes-for-online-sellers

[storage.boutique]

So, if you have inherited such an amount of stuff, it will be declared on the estate final settlement from your lawyers. If it is just listed as "house contents" or similar and a small value, then you might have some difficulty in a full on investigation. But, you are correct, HMRC are likely to take into account what is reasonable. So, for example, if the contents of these houses were things like furniture, pictures, lamps etc then that would tend to match up. But if say you were selling off valuable Star Wars toys consistently over years then they are more likely to send an assessment - you may even be due for inheritance tax if the sales value was not declared and it took you over that limit. It has been publicised on the news for over a year now that all internet companies will be sending data to HMRC. It is also the same with your payment gateway provider on your own website and your bank accounts - all of which have NI numbers attached. I am not saying that they are already at the stage where they can join everything up, but you can certainly see the writing on the wall with the advent of AI. The day is coming when the AI tax inspector will be easily able to investigate your digital footprint. For example, I submit our VAT returns using MTD which now includes a direct link to all bank transactions through the company bank account. Likewise, the corporation tax submission has every transaction through the bank account. It would take AI milliseconds to run an audit to look for specific things. So, I am simply suggesting that everyone gets ready and has their exact story straight with documented evidence and pays tax on their income. If HMRC thinks you are generating an income and not declaring, they have the power to simply send you an assessment and you must prove otherwise. You cannot plead ignorance, or say you never got the documents. If you cant do it legitimately, get out before something nasty happens.

[storage.boutique]

Agreed - that is exactly what I was saying. If you genuinely did not have a tax liability before 2024, then you don't have one now. However, it is much, much easier for the Government to check and audit than before. This process continues apace. If you genuinely did have a tax liability and didn't declare it, it is becoming much, much easier for HMRC to find out. The method of assessment has not changed, nor has the method of enforcement, only how they are using information to discover non payers. The change is mentioned in the first line above - Online platforms to start sharing... that is the topic we were discussing in this thread.

[jckl1957]

Your posts in this thread have generally been inaccurate and alarmist:

'I am simply suggesting that everyone gets ready and has their exact story straight with documented evidence and pays tax on their income. If HMRC thinks you are generating an income and not declaring, they have the power to simply send you an assessment and you must prove otherwise. You cannot plead ignorance, or say you never got the documents. If you cant do it legitimately, get out before something nasty happens.'

'f you havent been declaring the correct amount of tax due on income drawn from eBay (there is a small number of transactions per month allowed)'  [That is nonsense and you state it, as a fact, at least twice.]

' that was changed in tax law last year'.

[sml192]

@storage.boutique wrote:

Your own website payment gateway (eg PayPal) has already given your NI number as part of the money laundering system and will be doing the same as eBay. 

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@storage.boutique wrote:

It has been publicised on the news for over a year now that all internet companies will be sending data to HMRC. It is also the same with your payment gateway provider on your own website and your bank accounts - all of which have NI numbers attached. 

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Neither of those statements are true. 

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Isn't it amazing how everything can be inflated so easily, by just not reading the guidance.......

I really don't get why so many are up in arms about this, as it is something that should be reported anyway as extra income.  That doesn't necessarily mean that you pay tax on it.

And 99.% of those worrying about it have absolutely nothing to worry about.

This is all about those who are miss declaring their income.  

Or in other words, all of those people who seem to think that having a side income, is not a business!

[shopping-ferret]

I'd say the number of people who should be worried is far in excess of just 1%. It's probably closer to around the 30% mark  However maybe if despite the new laws they carry on, seems they're not bothered and think they stand a chance of going under the radar! Or if not, will just pay the tax as it's still worthwhile to them with all the profit they've made and Ebay fees they'd escaped. 

I've had a private seller account but only used it once but when seller fees were abolished, thought why am I selling my own stuff and paying fees so have starting using that account as I'm selling off my belongings prior to a downsize house move. 

I note lots of private seller apparently lie and state they're selling their belongings. What... the same dress in different sizes? Or 20 mascaras and about 15 other near duplicate listings selling the exact same item? 

I get the odd things sneaked in, but when you've thousands of feedbacks, 600 listings and appear to specialise in certain things?

[papso22]

There are even 'private sellers' asking for advice on the boards on how to avoid having their sales reported, for example by getting a relative to use their account instead.

Looking for tax avoidance advice,  what next?

[technthread]

This is all about those who are miss declaring their income.  

Or in other words, all of those people who seem to think that having a side income, is not a business!

I took a screenshot of this from an eBay survey I started and then abandoned the other day:

eBay don’t help with the confusion sometimes.

[storage.boutique]

I am reading all the responses to this thread and i was a little bemused at how serious people are taking this. If someone is selling multiple items say mascara, then of course the HMRC is likely to regard this as a business and issue an assessment for back tax and NI on what they estimate as profits. If it is as high as 30% of the private seller community then it will be well worth their time deploying a major resource to issue assessments. However, my experience of eBay is that the moment they get an idea that a private seller account is actually a business, they change that eBay account to a business account. That then makes it much easier for HMRC to identify. 

However, I think that the furore on this topic, is note really a tax issue. I think people (regardless of whether they are a business or a private seller) have been claiming social security benefits eg Universal Credits, for years whilst trading on eBay. Now the net is closing in with the need for eBay to report NI numbers. This will allow HMRC to reconcile people who have been claiming benefits to the same people who have been trading on eBay. In which case, that is a criminal action and the penalties are pretty stiff. 

So, I actually think that the people who are protesting about having to hand over their NI number are actually trying everything they possibly can to avoid HMRC finding out that they have been claiming something they should not be claiming. Yes, they could be assessed for tax, but a simple bankruptcy would close that case whereas a criminal action is much simpler and they are likely to get more cash in the end. The publicity generated by a few well placed prosecutions would net them even more when the wrongdoers suddenly get legitimate.

Just my opinion, but the tax legislation is not new, and the only thing that has changed is that you are being asked to supply your NI number. If I was HMRC and someone refused to supply that number I would be investigating them rapid style. I think they protest too much.

[storage.boutique]

HMRC - they need to be able to assess you for tax and check you are not claiming any benefits from them that you are not entitled to. Perfectly reasonable and woe unto them that fraud the taxpayers!

[storage.boutique]

It is nothing to do with individual sellers. These are not new rules, they have been well publicised for over a year now. eBay must, by law, supply HMRC your NI number. If you have not paid tax under that NI number, or worse, claimed benefits under that NI number, then you have defrauded the taxpayers of this country and you must surely expect a hefty penalty. It is not an optional thing that you can refuse - tax and NI is payable in this country and if you claim benefits then you make certain declarations.

If you have something to hide, get off eBay and any other online platform, and hope they dont look into your historical trading activity, although I think that ship has long since sailed.

[papso22]

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@technthread wrote:

This is all about those who are miss declaring their income.  

Or in other words, all of those people who seem to think that having a side income, is not a business!

I took a screenshot of this from an eBay survey I started and then abandoned the other day:

eBay don’t help with the confusion sometimes.

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Clear as mud!

[the_book_seekers]

Who is going to admit to being a 'reseller or selling for profit, but not a business owner' as this appears to mean a business selling on a private account. 

[lucy_farmer]

Is this because, in America, they don't have quite the same 'take' on business vs. private selling?

And here on the UK site they're trying to bash US 'round pegs' into UK 'square holes'...

[papso22]

Questions like those require explanations of the terms used to have any meaning.

For all we know eBay might think 'business owner' means the director of a limited company.  

[rosiemac333]

Yeah papso, tax  loopholes should only be for the wealthy to use. 

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@papso22 wrote:

There are even 'private sellers' asking for advice on the boards on how to avoid having their sales reported, for example by getting a relative to use their account instead.

Looking for tax avoidance advice,  what next?

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[honeymonster007]

Been wondering if eBay hold peoples NI number permanently on their data base or if there's an option to remove it.

[the_book_seekers]

I tried to complete that survey but got kicked out after a couple of questions as I didn't fit their target demographic.

[the_book_seekers]

I was okay with giving ebay my NI number. But was not impressed to find out that ebay is using members personal details, including any tax identification number provided, to train AI. Fortunately the thread which revealed this contained a link to an opt out.