Ebay & don't you hate being lied to ?

[tech-tonix]

Recently I renewed a listing for a cheap job lot of old broadband routers, including one

from VirginMedia which they had declined to remove after my contract with VM terminated,

even when given the opportunity.

On revising the listing description such that "VirginMedia" was more prominent, I received

an Ebay "knockdown" stating this was prohibited due to breaching their restrictions on 

various types of "unauthorised" radio communications devices.  I went through their list

itemising what constitutes a "fail" and it wasn't in there.  Amongst other things, it refers

to lists & types of equipment not authorised by the FCC and I'd imagined that we fell

outside the jurisdiction of the FCC unless we are a U.S. satellite state. 

So V.M. clearly lean on Ebay who cravenly cave in, giving their usual spurious pretexts.

I expect for VM it's some sensitivity to it being a "cable box" with all the implications re: cable-TV

hacks etc of which I'm indifferent as TV is such unwatchable ****e. Cannot VM merely switch off

cable "supply" to non-paying customers ?

Just another moany whinge, sorry !

[four_mid_able]

Virgin Media hardware remains their property as far as i know ,it's not your property to sell.

[tech-tonix]

If not removed within 3 to 6 months it becomes my property in my understanding of UK law

[1956glyn]

Thats correct.  Even if one upgrades your boxes Virgin send you a prepaid box to return the older units.

Everything remains the property of virgin.

[1956glyn]

If you read Virgins terms and conditions (had a quick look but cannot immediately find the appropriate part)

IF you do not return the equipment they will charge you (from memory) a penalty of around £65.00.

Either an engineer takes it away with them after replacement or Virgin send you a prepaid box to return it.

We have various boxes etc at home and i did read all their terms and conditions many years ago.

[1956glyn]

H. Using our equipment

1. We provide equipment to you it for the duration of your contract - for as long as you continue to receive services from us. The equipment will be our property at all times and we may need to alter or replace it from time to time. For us to do this, we will need reasonable access to your home.
2. You are responsible for making sure that our equipment is safe and used properly at all times. To do this, you agree to do the following:
   1. Follow the manufacturer's instructions and any other instructions we have given you;
   2. Keep the equipment in your home and under your control (for example, you may not sell it, lend it or hire it out to anyone else, put it up as security for a loan or mortgage, or allow it to be seized under any legal process against you).
   3. Insure any of our equipment against any loss, theft or damage for the full replacement value;
   4. Not tamper with disassemble, misuse, neglect or damage our equipment;
   5. Not remove, tamper with or cross out any words or labels on our equipment; and
   6. Take proper care at all times to prevent the loss or theft of our equipment.
3. You agree to tell us immediately about any loss or damage to any part of our equipment. You should do this by contacting our customer services team. You agree that you are responsible for any loss of or damage to the equipment, regardless of how it happens. We will charge you for any loss of or damage to the equipment.
4. If we or you end this agreement, if you decide to disconnect from some of our services, or if you wish to take up an offer to upgrade the equipment we provide to you, you must return the equipment to us or (if we choose) make it available for collection in a reasonable condition, allowing for fair wear and tear. If you fail to return or make available the equipment for collection for any reason, we are entitled to charge you for the replacement cost and reasonable recovery costs of the equipment. If we hold any money we may use that money towards the cost of the equipment. If we have supplied you with any additional equipment, we'd encourage you to dispose of it responsibly if you're no longer using it so please contact us for further information about disposing of your additional equipment.
5. Any equipment which you own and which you connect to the system (for example, fax machines or computers) must meet with all relevant laws and regulations. We reserve the right to disconnect any equipment that does not meet these laws and regulations. You may use your own equipment together with our equipment, but we do not guarantee that our equipment will work with your equipment.
6. We will not be liable in any way for any loss or damage arising from your use of your equipment with our equipment. We will not be liable for any loss of or damage to any additional equipment. We have the right to charge you for any replacement additional equipment.
7. You will have received certain software in your equipment at the point of activation of your services, and other software programs we may deliver to your equipment from time to time, which your equipment will automatically accept. You may use this software solely in executable code form and solely in conjunction with your equipment. You must not use any unauthorised software on the equipment. Without limiting the foregoing, certain equipment we provide to you may be accompanied by separate software intended for installation on other devices within your home. If you install this software on such devices, the terms of use of the software will be governed by an end user licence agreement, which you must accept before you install the software.
8. We and our suppliers retain title to and ownership of the software for the equipment we provide to you and all intellectual property rights in and on that equipment. Without limiting the foregoing, all TiVo copyrights and trade marks are the exclusive property of TiVo Inc. TiVo Inc. is an intended third-party beneficiary of this agreement.
9. We reserve the right to automatically enable any additional and separate bandwidth on the equipment we provide in order to offer a separate wireless local area network (Wi-Fi Hotspot) for other customers in the local area to connect to.

[tech-tonix]

"...available for collection in a reasonable condition, allowing for fair wear and tear. If you fail to return or make available the equipment for collection for any reason, we are entitled to charge you for the replacement cost and reasonable..."

Since my termination of contract with them, they have been notified 18 months ago that the item has been available for collection, & that should they not collect within 6 months of collection, the item will be disposed of in a manner of my choosing.

The contract does not override UK Law

[papso22]

Could you please reference the UK law you are relying on to make the box your property?

[4_bathrooms]

You missed a bit:

"If we or you end this agreement, if you decide to disconnect from some of our services, or if you wish to take up an offer to upgrade the equipment we provide to you, you must return the equipment to us or (if we choose) make it available for collection in a reasonable condition, allowing for fair wear and tear. If you fail to return or make available the equipment for collection for any reason..."

You must return the equipment to them. The option of making it available for collection was entirely their choice, not yours. There is nothing in UK Law nor the laws of England & Wales (which likely govern the contract) that makes it your property. 

[tech-tonix]

It was a long time ago I last concluded this from what I read on it, & can't be bothered to re-visit, 

suffice it to say that Virginmedia's online statement re: uncollected/unwanted kit disposal is as follows:-

"

Kit we want returned

If you have kit we want back we'll drop you a letter to let you know 5 working days after your services change or disconnect. Remember to include any power supplies and remote controls."

and then

"If we don't require your kit back we ask that you dispose of it in an environmentally friendly manner. "

So from that I can reasonably conclude it  is not required back by them.

Note their use of "...ask..." not "require". And reselling has to be more environmentally friendly than the household waste site

[1956glyn]

You really should read Virgins terms and conditions as they do not mean recycling it by selling it.

Its crystal clear that they do not want their equipment to be sold.

They want it to be taken to a proper recycling centre.........

1. It’s shredded – into small pieces at a reprocessing plant.
   
   
2. Materials are separated – plastic, metals (magnetic, non-magnetic)…
   
   
3. Sent away – these raw materials become something new: Zinc from mobile phones, for examples, gets used in ships, lampposts, metal railings. And musical instruments can be made of plastic.

[tech-tonix]

Nah, you missed a bit, if they choose not to collect it at a mutually agreed time/date or provide the means for me to return it for free (I'm not under any obligation to put the thing in their pack, I could hand it to the courier loose with their packing)- they may choose Yodel/Collect+ collections paid by them, in packaging they send in advance - they effectively renounce further right to it. It seems that had they sent the pack to me within the 5 days after I'd terminated the contract - indicating they wanted it back, they expected me to take the pack to the nearest Collect+ drop-off point. Which I would not. I may have mobility problems, or just an allergy to Virginmedia born of the way they attempt to scr*w their customers. I've noted nothing contractual in regard to disposal of router/s in the T&Cs on their website, just the "ask you to dispose of it responsibly". They were advised it was available for collection but I would not hold it here indefinitiely for them unless they paid reasonable storage charges per year.

[ldn-refurbs]

Just had my eBay listing taken down after it was reported. It's annoying because it is extra equipment I specifically paid Virgin Media for and have a purchase receipt for.