Buyer protection? It's just not there.

[bravergrace]

I bought an item on eBay - a largeish item, about 3 foot x 2 foot x 1 foot, not a letterbox item.

The courier marked it as delivered to my address at 11.13 pm (yes, 11.13 at night). 

No photo, obviously.  Because it wasn't delivered.  There was no delivery made at that time of night, and no parcel on the doorstep in the morning.

Seller says "The tracking proves it was delivered to your address."

eBay CS have opened a case for me (I can't open a case myself, because the tracking "proves" it was delivered).

What happens next?  eBay tell me to ask the courier.  The courier won't deal with me because they will only deal with the sender.  The sender insists their courier delivered the parcel just before midnight.  

Doubtless the case will be closed in the seller's favour, leaving me out of pocket.  

And eBay talk of buyer protection.  Can't say I feel "protected."

[sheba-knows-best]

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@bravergrace wrote:

Doubtless the case will be closed in the seller's favour, leaving me out of pocket.  

And eBay talk of buyer protection.  Can't say I feel "protected."

---

You sound like a condemned man. That's the problem with negativity (and I note you've been increasingly frustrated with ebay in the last year) it tends to become a vicious circle. There are flaws in every system. I'm sorry you appear to have become a (possibly temporary) victim of one. On the whole ebay massively protects its buyers (try Vinted, if you don't believe me). We know that. Sellers never stop complaining about it.

I hope you phoned ebay, asked for common sense to prevail and asked for any funds to be temporarily put on hold while the parcel, touch wood, finds itself.

As a point of interest I had an identical event last year. The item was just delivered the next day. Something to do with a missing driver and a replacement not knowing the ropes with scanning to deliver the next day vs scanning delivered with buyer. Fingers crossed this is the case for you too.

[bravergrace]

Yes, it's sadly not uncommon for my Evri driver to mark things as delivered at the end of their shift, and actually deliver them the next morning, explaining that they won't get paid unless they mark it as delivered.   (Many of them are, I suspect, illegal subcontractors with no English and possibly no work permit.)   But this time, they didn't do the delivery. 

My frustration arises from not being able to do anything.  

Of course I've spoken to eBay.  And I suspect that if I could actually speak to Evri about it, they'd already know.  They don't seem to mind (or notice) their drivers sitting at home, scanning things as "delivered" just before midnight.

But unless the seller chooses to believe me, I'm stuck with no parcel, I will lose the INR case automatically, and then it will need more phone calls to eBay to sort out a courtesy refund.

Meanwhile, the driver has got paid for the delivery, and kept my parcel.  The seller won't believe me - why should they, eBay will just tell them "not your problem", keep your money - and Evri have been paid for a delivery they haven't made - and which nobody can (or will) tell them they haven't made.

Unusually for me, I'm quite looking forward (as a buyer) to the introduction and extension of eBay's Simple Delivery.  Because at least I will then have  a choice of courier when I buy something.

[davrman]

"Unusually for me, I'm quite looking forward (as a buyer) to the introduction and extension of eBay's Simple Delivery. Because at least I will then have a choice of courier when I buy something."

Are you sure that's the case? I've seen (and rejected) some items listed with this new system, and they only offer the choice of "eBay Standard" or eBay Express"... no mention of the actual service used.

[papso22]

As you know, you have fallen through the major crack in the MBG, marked as delivered, but not.  

It does make a mockery of the original strapline 'get the item you ordered or your money back' which used to be on the Ebay home page.  (Who remembers the days of 'orange Tony' who shoved the MBG at you on the home page)?   In your case, and many others that we see, you didn't get the item you ordered and you will have a fight to get your money back, so the promise is a false one.

Sorry I have no useful advice to give.

I note now that the MBG is nowhere to be seen on the main pages, and only appears on listings, which might explain why more and more members are unaware of its existence.

[bravergrace]

I also found, while attempting to "see the buyer's point of view" by going through the proper procedure, that in the case of an item falsely scanned as delivered, the proper procedure leads to a circular path on the help pages and on the chatbot "help".

Which means that you can't even ASK for your money back, report the situation or ask eBay how to handle the case - unless you happen to know how to circumvent the chatbot by entering "AGENT" as the answer to every question it asks you.  You just go round in circles with "Which item didn't you receive?" "Oh yes you did receive it, the tracking says so!" Is there anything else I can help you with today?"

I'm hoping that once eBay handles delivery itself - and makes itself responsible for non-deliveries, with a helpline and all, that there will at any rate be a proper procedure to report this uncomfortable situation.

[moldosgifts]

Lets not forget the buyer protection fee is not live yet so you are still on the old buyer protection.

Not that i think i will make a jot of difference to the outcomes for the buyer in cases like the one highlighted.

Hopefully ebay will pay for the refund

[4_bathrooms]

Out of curiosity is the seller registered as a business or private seller? Also, is this a valuable item i.e. worth more than £100?

I know what I would do in your situation but exactly what would depend upon the status of the seller and the value involved.  

[bravergrace]

It is a low value item (£25), from a high-feedback business seller - one that I buy from regularly, but they're too big to regard me as an important customer. 

I mean, if one of my regular customers made this sort of claim, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt (refund them, report the matter to the courier, and ask the customer to let me know if the item ever turns up).

[sheba-knows-best]

I agree this is a situation - when you are a long-term ebay buyer and seller, presumably with a history of honesty and no potential scams reported against you - where ebay should be doling out a goodwill gesture refund.

[4_bathrooms]

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@bravergrace wrote:

It is a low value item (£25), from a high-feedback business seller - one that I buy from regularly, but they're too big to regard me as an important customer. 

---

Given the value of the item, the fact you're a regular customer and the timestamp shown for the alleged delivery I'm amazed they didn't just send a replacement or issue a refund.

If the INR case is automatically closed in their favour - which I suspect it will be - I doubt eBay will offer a courtesy refund; they're more likely just to quote the terms stated in their MBG policy. You would be all but guaranteed your money back if you filed a dispute with a card issuer because the business was responsible for delivering the item into your physical possession which clearly didn't happen at 11.13pm when a courier was involved. Hopefully you paid with a card and not with a PayPal balance as I'm pretty sure PayPal would take the same position as eBay. 

As the seller has an online delivery scan they wouldn't be held liable for reimbursing eBay even though your card issuer refunded you (at eBay's expense). Of course, the seller might decide to block you for filing a chargeback even though eBay wouldn't be holding them liable for reimbursement of any funds. So I suppose the chargeback route depends upon whether you ever intended to purchase from the seller again or not.  

[4_bathrooms]

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@sheba-knows-best wrote:

I agree this is a situation - when you are a long-term ebay buyer and seller, presumably with a history of honesty and no potential scams reported against you - where ebay should be doling out a goodwill gesture refund.

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eBay used to do exactly that. I might have to some digging on the Wayback Machine but eBay's MBG policy used to actually state something about the reputations of the parties involved maybe being taken into consideration when making a decision (it states absolutely nothing of the sort now).

Over the last few years INR and INAD cases have become increasingly (now, almost totally) automated whilst eBay's customer service representatives have become increasingly inept. Both buyers and sellers with genuine grievances have increasingly found it almost impossible to get eBay to even understand the nature of their complaint in the first place.   

[fatbobfan]

Hopefully turn up, I've had a phantom late delivery in the past, took a few days but eventually got where it should.

Your  more in the know than I on delivery targets for Evri drivers, guessing its a common practice, sort of understandable for them, but doesnt make for happy customers, the little I know of the self employed couriers it can be bloomin hard

[bravergrace]

Well, the seller has offered me a refund or replacement, provided that I sign a declaration of non-receipt, on a form that states the seller  confirms the parcel was delivered.

I can remember this sort of form being used by sellers about 20 years ago - it had two purposes:

- to make sure the buyer was aware the seller didn't believe them.

- to discourage claims, legitimate or otherwise.

Can't say I'm thrilled, especially as it took me 6 minutes to work out how to open and print the form in the first place.

[papso22]

I would amend the form to say that tracking says item was delivered but that you are disputing the tracking.

[the-nutwood-collection]

I had a buyer that claimed non receipt, and I believed her.  EVRi sent me a form that she had to sign, saying that the parcel hadn't been delivered and that she understood that she would be committing fraud if it had been delivered and the police may become involved.  It was obviously designed to rattle buyers that were claiming non-receipt when it had been delivered.

She signed the form, I sent a replacement and received compensation from EVRi.  

[5216elisabeth]

I'm curious as to what photograph the Evri driver has uploaded to the tracking on the Evri website as proof that he/she has actually delivered the parcel?  

[jokers_toybox]

Ugh, this genuinely sucks for you, but honestly, the company could easily look at your purchase history with them and for the sake of keeping your business issue a 25 quid refund, it's not a lot in the grand scheme of things so I hope you get it sorted satisfactorily in the end

[5216elisabeth]

Sorry, just realised you said there was no photo.  There is definitely no proof it was delivered then, surely that should help your cause.  I wonder if it's a courier with a tiny car that's the problem.  I had to chase a larger (but within size/weight limits) parcel I sent before Christmas that was stuck at the recipients depot.  It took a couple of phone calls to Evri and a few days but it got there in the end.  The customer services told me that sometimes the couriers only have small cars so they can't fit the larger parcels in - crackers! 

[the_book_seekers]

The OH has been waiting for a parcel from Amazon today. It has been passed to Evri to deliver. First there was a message from Evri apologizing for not being able to deliver and will try again as soon as possible. Shortly after there was a message from Amazon saying a delivery was attempted at 5.28pm. No it wasn't. I was outside between 5 & 5.30pm loading rubble into a skip. Evri appear to be telling us one thing and Amazon another. We still expect the parcel to be delivered, but this sort of thing from Evri is not impressive.