Businesses masquerading as private seem to be on the increase!!!!!!!!!!!

[chrledd]

I have been an ebay business seller for over 10 years and have to say I am beginning to despair - sales are down and worse still they seem to have taken a nosedive since the no fees for private sellers was introduced. I really don't know what to do. Every time I go list a new item I search for comparables and every time there are 'private' sellers selling the same items (clothing brand new with tags) . It is driving me absolutely nuts. Is there a correct way to report these sellers and will anything be done if I do?? It seems so unfair that my ebay selling costs are spiralling even though sales are down - these people don't even have to accept returns. GGRRRRRRRR - sorry, rant over now but it really is driving me mad, especially seeing as ebay don't seem to care - just fleecing us business sellers for more and more cash. 

[ojewellery]

@the-nutwood-collection  isn't this where you play the price game yourself. Supply and demand,  you can see where the price sweet spot is for your item now stock isn't available elsewhere.

I used to hold off listing against one of my competitors until their stock was low then go in at a price I knew I could achieve but gave me healthier profits than a race to the bottom.  I appreciate many other variables like replenishment rate.

[vintique*violet]

I am confused about your post as it appears you are new to eBay only registering today with zero feedback or sales?  Why did you do that?  To protect your identity or the products you sell? 

Please stop blaming the fee-free introduction for private sellers being the downfall of business sales.

It is NOT the legitimate private seller  and all this blaming causes a bad taste and division. 

An us against them scenario , one we have seen before playing out , on many levels,  in life! 

Private sellers did not do this!

Perhaps when discussing " private sellers"  it could be made clear that these are BUSINESS SELLERS acting in the PRIVATE sellers category - many who suddenly just happen to have the same stock or similar as many businesses on this platform. 

Companies/ Business sellers who are pretending to be private sellers.  Those who have the power and funds to buy 10000;s of stock, store them and list them... Where did they come from?  Were they already on eBay and opened up a new account to sell  to try and make more profit ? Surely eBay would see that?  And for sure it would affect them too, accounting, tax purposes, inventory, HMRC. etc?

 Why would an established  business risk their  good name for a fee-free "private" account?  I struggle to see any genuine business on this platform acquiring a new account for " private" selling. 

Or is it simply the case of those seeing an opportunity ( whether rightly or wrongly) and going for it?  After all times are hard! 

Do you think that eBay are not monitoring this ? Of course they are! It seems to be a test like the new messaging and payments system - launched without asking their " customers"  ( for we all are eBays customers) and yet to have those " gitchy mistakes" ironed out.  We become the test cases in real time!  

Sorry, but I cannot see how in a couple of months that a few new "business private sellers"  with the exact same stock as many others have created a no sales, no views, no offers, loss of business etc scenario. 

When in truth genuine private sellers are experiencing the very same thing! 

No sale - No fee

No fee - No sale 

I cannot put my finger on it , but something does not pass the sell by date and runs much deeper in my opinion.  

[dch2112011]

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@pg_kicks wrote:

Wait a minute are you telling me you dont find the below statement to be true in any way what so ever?

At eBay, we are dedicated to ensuring a fair and equitable marketplace for all business sellers.

Apologies from ebay AI -  although ebay AI is normally 100% accurate on this occasion it did not meet the standard expected so having reviewed your comments we have taken the following action.

The AI statement will now read 

 At eBay, we are dedicated to ensuring an unfair and inequitable marketplace for all business sellers.

This change may take up to 24 hours to reflect on your account 

This review was undertaken by an agent 

Thank you for being a  valued member of Vinted 

[pg_kicks]

I can answer a couple of your questions pretty easily tbh.

Why would an established  business risk their  good name for a fee-free "private" account?  I struggle to see any genuine business on this platform acquiring a new account for " private" selling. 

My categories are flooded with private businesses, as I've sold over 16k pairs of trainers, 100% feedback from over 6400 customers, 5 stars on all the seller rating, you'd think this is a great seller and should have many return customers. This year 2.6% of my sales have been return customers, many buyers dont care for feedback if they can get it for £10/£15 cheaper, 60/70% of my items go through authentication so you dont really need feedback as eBay guarantee the item. Then comes the big bonus for the seller, I pay eBay around £2k a month if I dropped onto a private account thats £24k a year extra in my back pocket, that is the perfect reason to drop onto a fee free account. 

Do you think that eBay are not monitoring this ?

This has been an issue for years, ever since they started the biweekly 70/80% off weekends its been an ever increasing issue, eBay know its an issue as they've been told thousands of times but don't seem to care otherwise they'd have fixed it, its pretty simple to fix lets be honest. Everyone keeps saying they will surely fix it now as they are losing all selling fees but in my category they are really only losing 20/30% as previously the accounts would only list on promo weekends. 

Its simple, they are either monitoring it and are terrible at fixing the site, or they are terrible at running a business and reports are not being transferred to the correct team, neither show eBay in good light.

You can still do all your HMRC reports and everything that side legally on a private account, its just eBay policy you are breaking and consumer law, HMRC dont care for those.

They are 100% not the only issue with the site, but they will get most of the blame as its a right kick in the nuts thinking I'm giving basically somebodies wage for a year whilst others get it for free. It seems like eBay just gave up 3 or so years ago and went in the wrong direction and now wont open their eyes and fix the issues.

Many on here have accounts just for the forum, I sometimes wish I did as it means you can say what you really like without backlash to your business from either eBay or random people on here, and you can go to the open events without half some staff knowing you before you know them.

[auctiongabble]

Nowhere near £85k

What ebay offer business sellers is a joke! Support clinic and tools to just see how many sales you are not getting and constantly getting banners on how we should give ebay more money with promoted listings

[tigsby]

Any particular reason why you are calling me  out on this? 

My reasons for setting up a new account isn’t  something I should have to justify to you. eBay’s process allowed me to do so and that’s all that matters surely? 

I’ve been on eBay since 2004 and I’m well aware of what is going on in the category I sell in. There are 2 seller types on eBay, business and private. Any reference I make to a private seller comes from eBay’s description of the said account. Any pet names you have for them are just that.

I mentioned a decline in sales from looking at seller hub data, it shows that my sales are down 30% since the fee free introduction. Just factual information is all 

[pg_kicks]

100% agree with you on that, just thought that may be the reason you didn’t get the 1 to 1. I’d say ask in tomorrows weekly copy and paste but might get a better answer if you ask the wall.

it seems eBay have decided those who don’t at deserve more than those that do.

[vintique*violet]

I was just asking a question as to why - your listings may of been something of interest especially as Christmas is coming... not calling you out at all, and I honestly did not know that eBay allows that. 

Genuine PRIVATE sellers are not the cause of business sales downfall in my opinion ...where is the proof of this? If this was the case it would have been happening with fees or not...  It is Businesses masquerading as such to take advantage of the non applicable fees introduction...plenty of discussions/information on the community platform and it is seen on the eBay platform with new private sellers showing up with 100;s of listings. 

Decline in sales, viewings, etc are being experienced by many for months on end, particularly  the past year, not just since the changes for Private sellers, this includes business and private sellers. There is something seriously wrong with the platform, we can all feel it and see it. 

Maybe it is all about the economy and people just don't have funds to spare after bills are paid, or perhaps " customers"  have fled the platform? 

[vintique*violet]

Thank you for explaining in detail and taking the time, I appreciate. 

Re- Private Sellers. Ebay now report your details to HMRC if you sell 30 items or reach I think its around £1800 per year ... Yes, in a year not a month! So if these  " masqueraders" think they won't get found out , they surely will. 

There is a huge difference between someone selling as a hobby, or to offer items no longer needed  or to gather funds for unexpected bills or holiday or as a supplement for hard times., or whatever their reason and I cannot see that these sellers are the result in causing a business platform loss of sales of around 50% or more due to a non-fee.

 It would mean they would have to have the exact item the business seller sold - I don't have 30 Nikes' or 300 kettles or whatever laying around and not sure any genuine private seller would either 😉 

So I am trying to understand why eBay are allowing businesses to open new accounts as private ... If they are already on the platform then their details are known and can be cross referenced - unless again eBay are not monitoring that either?  If eBay are not " fixing" issues that sellers have particularly for business sellers then there must be a reason other than money? 

I did not know you could open another account, your answer explained why, thank you ... maybe I should do that and come back as another self 😉 

[triple512]

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@vintique*violet wrote:

Re- Private Sellers. Ebay now report your details to HMRC if you sell 30 items or reach I think its around £1800 per year ... Yes, in a year not a month! So if these  " masqueraders" think they won't get found out , they surely will. 

You’re missing the point: The majority of these ‘masquerading’ accounts are fully registered with HMRC. They are just trading on eBay’s private accounts to avoid fees.

Therefore HMRC will have no interest in these people if tax is being paid.

There is a huge difference between someone selling as a hobby, or to offer items no longer needed  or to gather funds for unexpected bills or holiday or as a supplement for hard times., or whatever their reason and I cannot see that these sellers are the result in causing a business platform loss of sales of around 50% or more due to a non-fee.

Unfortunately eBay do not currently limit the number of private accounts you can open (as far as I know), so they are exploiting this and selling over several accounts to get around the free listing allowance. 
As you can imagine it’s a huge problem for businesses operating in the same categories as these guys can undercut by around 15% (no fees) with same margins.

 It would mean they would have to have the exact item the business seller sold - I don't have 30 Nikes' or 300 kettles or whatever laying around and not sure any genuine private seller would either 😉 

In the categories I sell in, that’s exactly what these sellers are doing. They are not genuine private sellers. They are clearly buying to sell, same wholesalers, same products, same ads, same quantities but undercutting genuine business accounts due to not having to pay eBay fees.

So I am trying to understand why eBay are allowing businesses to open new accounts as private ... If they are already on the platform then their details are known and can be cross referenced - unless again eBay are not monitoring that either?  If eBay are not " fixing" issues that sellers have particularly for business sellers then there must be a reason other than money? 

Agree, we (Business sellers) are trying to understand why on earth eBay (and Trading Standards for that matter) are allowing it. So many threads on these boards, plus questions asked every week in the chat, but frankly same old copy and paste answers. It’s become a huge problem but doesn’t make sense as eBay is now losing fees from these sellers and genuine businesses are leaving too. Seems to be a lose/lose situation and sadly at the expense of the genuine private seller.

I did not know you could open another account, your answer explained why, thank you ... maybe I should do that and come back as another self 😉 

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[pg_kicks]

The HMRC thing is pretty pointless, everyone knows eBay dont care but HMRC do, so they play sensible, use a private account on eBay getting free sales but HMRC side they are legit, so when HMRC get the data its all fine as the names/addresses/DOB whatever they give over matches with a tax return.

Whilst I agree 1 person doesnt effect a business, but when 25 people decide to sell 10 things they have bought to resell it then can affect businesses, multiple this by 10 and you can see why business account holders are so annoyed. Thats just against 1 item so its a race to the bottom for prices but if somebody is getting 10% head start by being a private account it means all businesses will suffer, again this is just against businesses on private account, but anyone who buys to resell, be it 1 or 100 they are a business. Many claim its just a hobby/side hustle, that doesnt matter they are a business but either dont understand or dont care, trainers is my hobby but I'm sure nobody would believe me if I said I wasnt a business.

Nobody outside of eBay know why they do it, I dont think eBay know tbh as you get a different story every person you speak to.  As somebody whos been on here a while it seems like they started down the route of giving occasional offers to both, then thought hey businesses will stick around as we are the best site so lets scrap that then they stupidly went the dominos/SCS route of giving private accounts offers so often that people refused to list unless they had an offer. They claim it brings more buyers but wont release any figures to prove this, if its true surely you'd release it all?

Now we are where we are at today, private sellers annoyed as they are not getting sales whilst not paying, businesses sellers annoyed they are paying and not getting sales and the site flooded with businesses on private accounts who are getting sales (would want more) but not paying and not giving the consumer what they are legally entitled too. It seems that management have taken their eye off the ball and resulted in a mess, theres a lot of other issues which result in no sales like the search being so bad, item specifics, messages and the constant changing of stuff thats fixed.

[tigsby]

I put no blame onto private seller accounts causing the decline, this whole farce is entirely down to eBay and I questioned if they even know what they are doing as it doesn’t make any financial business sense by throttling the sales that earn them money.  EBay are not winning by private sellers now having no fees so investing in paying to promote either, they’ve handed it to them on a plate. They’ve slashed prices instead so are cheaper and come up top of search

Most private sellers in my category were trading pre the introduction of free to sell, it’s not a low bar to entry industry and you are buying direct from manufacturers who are in general, strict on the ‘Trade only’ policy to open an account. I am unable to get accounts with a couple of manufacturers as their is already a business stocking their range within 4 miles of me (even though I’m online only). It’s rare to get a genuine private seller with any more than a couple of one off items.

The only reason the bulk of private sellers with 1000’s of new items listed in multiple variation format (and ‘about information’ telling their story of how they are a business) are trading as private sellers is because of eBay’s inability to enforce its own rules and that’s a long standing issue.

I’ve always followed the community boards but with the topic I’m commenting on it would be ill thought out to do it via my business account. A Google search of my business name brings up plenty about me without adding hits that show me commenting on forums about my concerns over business being in decline. I’ve staff to consider in all of this

EBay allow you to have multiple accounts, this is my 3rd all set up In my name and address. I have always had 2, one is the business account and the other is my private account used for making personal purchases, only thing ever sold on that account was a remorse purchase air fryer.

[theelench]

Well done you for trying to make the point that businesses operating on private accounts are nothing to do with genuine private sellers and that the problem of businesses loosing sales to other businesses operating on private accounts is a business problem, nothing to do with private sellers.  It's solely a matter between ebay and business sellers and private sellers should not be dragged into it.

But you're wasting your time even trying to make the point to business sellers who do not want to hear you, as you saw on the "Is ebay in terminal decline...?" thread.

It's quite obvious that someone selling 1000 kettles in different colours is a business but will still be routinely referred to as a private seller.   Even when it's made clear that I'm talking about the problems of genuine private sellers, the argument is swiftly twisted back to businesses operating on private accounts again, maintaining the fiction that the two are inter-changeable.

I think we both see that businesses operating on private accounts are a problem for both legitimate businesses and genuine private sellers, but some do not want to acknowledge that private sellers have nothing at all to do with the problem or any way of altering the situation.

You ask why the new account.  Having been trying to make the same points for months / years it becomes apparent that, for some, regular name changes are a deliberate tactic.  They can be used on a relay or rota to increase the apparent number of "concerned" members or swell the chorus of agreement.  Can be used to increase the clamour for "Something must be done" and even in a few cases I.Ds are set up solely to give extra Kudos to posts, never buying, selling, opening a new thread or replying to an old one, just kudo-ing.

All the best trying to introduce some balance into the topic, I hope you are more persuasive than my efforts have been, I'm tired of banging my head against this particular brick wall and might even take a rest 😂  

[dch2112011]

Indeed false private accounts are the scourge of both business and personal sellers, a united front should be shown to ebay. 

Business members should embrace personal members selling on ebay - these members indeed buy on ebay - the false businesses are less likely to do so.

ebay at the moment don't give a fig simply hiding behind the 'it's nothing to do with us ' head in the hole approach.

There must be a motive behind ebay's approach - just haven't figured it out yet - and ebay won't disclose anything except the proverbial wall of silence !

[tabletop-hobbies]

I've paid close to 30k in fees this year and ebay just seems to love letting these folks run riot undercutting the real business sellers.  There doesn't seem to be an easy avenue to report these either, unless ebay have removed my ability to do it- you could just click a button on the profile.  These businesses masquerading as private bring ebay down, they tend to offer a poorer service than real business sellers and tarnish ebay's reputation and by extension the true businesses who are establishing a good reputation and providing a good experience for customers.

Add to that ebay are likely enabling tax evasion by not addressing this.

Massive own goal from ebay imo.

[theelench]

I completely agree.

I even suggested on one of these threads a way ebay could easily deter businesses from opening a private account and then rapidly turning it into a 1,000+ listing business.

Just stop automatically increasing a private seller's selling limit if they got somewhere near their current limit.

Instead, after what ebay determined was a reasonable limit for a private seller, make them request a higher limit giving reasons why they needed it.  Thus allowing the possibility for the few private sellers, like a collector with 50K stamps to sell, but deterring someone who might start with some stamps but intended to then sell their 'collection' of 1K identical brand new kettles.

Ebay did get as far as reducing Free Listings from 1K per month to 300, but seem to have done nothing more.  In fact they seem to be heading in the opposite direction.

My Selling Limit has been 200 for as long as I can remember, but I noticed recently that it's been increased (un-asked for by me) to 10K listings and a sales value of £100K per month!!!

Evidently they still have trouble seeing that with that sort of leeway I might be tempted into developing down-sizing into a full-time business.   (Just joking, working all day every day on ebay would soon have me climbing the walls.)   But it is time ebay took this problem seriously.

[theelench]

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@tabletop-hobbies wrote:

 These businesses masquerading as private bring ebay down, they tend to offer a poorer service than real business sellers and tarnish ebay's reputation and by extension the true businesses who are establishing a good reputation and providing a good experience for customers.

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Again I agree, but your extension should also have included all the private sellers who also strive for a good reputation and to give happy buying experiences to buyers.

That is one reason I find the deliberate blurring of there being any difference private and "private"  sellers so objectionable. 

We all suffer from the damage done by these sellers, it is wrong to then tar all private sellers with the same brush by constantly referring to both as private sellers, implying that both are the same and not clearly distinguishing between the two.  

[santlache_sales]

"At eBay, we are dedicated to ensuring a fair and equitable marketplace for all business sellers."

Oh dear, eBay have come out with some whoppers over the years, but the above is pure fantasy.

eBay are manipulating the market and the search engine to show people what they want you to see, to the point they have made the platform the complete opposite of their statement above.

It seems that every turn eBay make they cause problems for the platform, like it's a bunch of schoolkids who are running the show and guessing what they think should be done next , like this free private listings when sales and buyers plummet due to other more pro-active sites offer free listings and fees.

There is absolutely no incentive to be a business on here anymore, all the attraction that was once here like low fees, global exposure, freedom to choose and run your business how you want has all totally evaporated.

[moldosgifts]

They could put them off registering as a business.

By 1 removing the ability to list as brand new, because if your private and selling your own property it is NOT new it is preowned or like new.

2 by removing the ability to sell multiples , so when creating the listing they can only list 1 of instead of 50 of.

3. 1 account type per address/IP ie one private and 1 business .

Like i said before i am not a techy but i would have thought al those can be added to private account very easily.

That would cut out the new item resellers. Second hand restrict them to 100 per month all listing renew every 30 days same as businesses.

[santlache_sales]

Businesses acting as Private sellers are a result of eBay's policies and extortionate fees.

I guarantee they are seeing a rise in private accounts now too, with people trying to circumvent eBay's fees as a business and you are surprised about this ?

It's a problem eBay have created through yet another very stupid management decision. It's not going away either and will only get worse.