A simple way to resolve the "private" business seller problem

[vonchief]

A correctly registered business can obviously not compete with those using private accounts to avoid eBay fees.

With eBay seemingly taking no action on these "private" business sellers, genuine business sellers feel they have no option but to open a private account and also avoid eBay fees.
I am certain this is not what genuine business sellers want to do.
eBay would not last very long either if all business sellers did this.

Surely if eBay removed the item condition of "new" for private accounts, this would go a long way to resolving the problem.
Simply grey out "new" for private sellers when they list an item.
They could still use "new other" if they have new, unused & unwanted items.

Anyone who is selling new items is a business.
If they want to list new items on eBay, the only option should be to open a business account.

[game_raid]

I have mentioned this before the only true way to deal with this is have a sales cap like amazon do, once you have turned over x amount, I think amazon is £12,000 then you must register as a business no ifs or buts and if the sellers doesn't wish to then the days of selling on the platform are over until they do.

They also do not allow multiple selling accounts, you can keep your personal purchases separate with a buying account but it will only ever be for purchases. A seller of course can open a new selling account but this gets shut pretty quickly along with their original selling account they opened.

eBay could tweak what amazon do and give private sellers a yearly trading allowance of as example £2000 a year maybe more in certain categories or items in the authentication service but this is only allowed to one or two sales per year over £2k this would be so easy to implement also.

They could even allow sales over 2k but anything over the fees are higher than a business seller would pay.

eBay needs to remove the lucreavity of being a business registered as a private seller and let the genuine private sellers enjoy fee free selling, there is more chance of them using their eBay funds to buy from a business seller than a business seller who will be withdrawing all their money each and every time.

I was looking at Rolex watches a last month and this particular seller has at least £70k worth of watches listed, I was seriously interested in a watch from them but because they were registered as private I never bought. I did question them about why they were not registered correctly and that they had lost a sale because I had no consumer rights by offering no returns, the reply was "we don't sell enough to be a business seller on here" and we are selling our own collection but the username was a jewellers in Bristol and judging by their feedback they were selling 2-3 watches per month which would be saving them 100s probably 1000s in fees.

They were also a VAT registered business which is also a legal requirement when selling online that your VAT number is displayed, another thing eBay isn't addressing, this doesn't apply to sales just on eBay it applies to sales everywhere.

Most would agree whether they are a business or private seller that it simply is not right whichever way you look at it.

[british-ceramics-and-paintings]

It isn't just new items, the categories I sell in are dominated by people buying items to resell on private accounts. If it is allowed to continue Ebay will end up with very few business accounts left.

It isn't just the benefits these sellers get from trading from private accounts it is the fact they clog up the website and make it difficult for legitimate business sellers to get any visibility.

It needs to be sorted asap however I have no confidence it will be as ebay were the ones who created the issues with this.

[moldosgifts]

I suggested this exact same idea a month ago, got attacked by private sellers coming up with all sorts of reasons why its new.

Most of them did not recognise once you own it its not new, whether you use it or not.

But i obviously agree with the new argument they (private) should not have the new item available to them.

Now the professional car boot seller ( second hand ) that's a completely different argument.

[the-nutwood-collection]

I think the simplest way to solve this is to have the same % fee for all sellers.  Like Etsy, on account creation, ask the seller to specify whether they are private, sole trader or a company - the latter two must take returns, private sellers can chose whether to offer this.

There should be incentives for business sellers, but these incentives should be performance related, for example free or reduced fees for a specified period if performance targets are met.  No incentives for private sellers - they're just de-cluttering so performance targets aren't relevant.

Enhanced selling tools for business sellers - multi-buy, sale and markdown etc., Terrapeak, performance stats.  Private sellers do not need these tools.  Shops only for business sellers - private sellers don't need a shop, buyers can click to see all their items.

All eBay has to do is de-incentivise business selling on a private account.  My suggestions won't de-incentivise real private sellers, but they would be a burden on businesses trading as private.

[555njp]

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@moldosgifts wrote:

I suggested this exact same idea a month ago, got attacked by private sellers coming up with all sorts of reasons why its new.

Most of them did not recognise once you own it its not new, whether you use it or not.

But i obviously agree with the new argument they (private) should not have the new item available to them.

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How do you account for all the business resellers on here then offering items as New that have been purchased from wholesalers, clearance companies, auctions or a shop then?

As I said in post 17 above, just because people are selling as a registered business (including myself) doesn’t mean they can call the items ‘New’ either, as technically they have been owned (but unused) and are devoid of any manufacturers warranty.

The only true sellers of Brand New items are manufacturers, creators (arts, crafts jewellers etc.) or authorised distributors who have the manufacturers full backing to sell their product including the OEM warranty.

EBay reads this different though:

NEW: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging (where packaging is applicable). If the item comes direct from a manufacturer, it may be delivered in non-retail packaging, such as a plain or unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full details.

Therefore, whether us business sellers like it or not, as warranties are not a legal or eBay requirement, a Private seller can legitimately call an unopened & unused product such as an unwanted gift ‘New’ if it meets the requirements above.

What they should not be doing is selling multiples of the same ‘New’ (or used) product, clearly bought to resell.

[premiumtradingcardsuk]

This has been one of the biggest disasters eBay policy has ever created. They've shot us and themselves in the foot, around 50% of our competitors right now are clear businesses using private accounts. 

Thanks eBay I look forward to losing money to these guys together!

[theelench]

I agree with what has been said earlier about "private" sellers not accepting returns, as a private seller of glass I DO accept returns.  I've usually only got one of any item and I'd much rather pay for it to be returned for any reason, rather than having a buyer change their mind and break it to force an INAD refund.

Not sure about a ban on private sellers selling items as New.  Last Christmas I won a bottle of Azzaro EDT.  It's still in its cellophane rapper, even has the plastic bar code on the side.  To me that's as New as the day it came out of the factory?

As I only have the one bottle why shouldn't I sell it as New?  If I was trying to sell 100 bottles, I agree that's a business.  But surely not 1 unwanted raffle prize?

[555njp]

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@theelench wrote:

Not sure about a ban on private sellers selling items as New.  Last Christmas I won a bottle of Azzaro EDT.  It's still in its cellophane rapper, even has the plastic bar code on the side.  To me that's as New as the day it came out of the factory?

As I only have the one bottle why shouldn't I sell it as New?  If I was trying to sell 100 bottles, I agree that's a business.  But surely not 1 unwanted raffle prize?

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Yep, exactly my point.
It’s new, it conforms to eBay’s description of new and can be sold by either a private or business seller as such. 
On my private account I have one such item.  Bought it for my son who decided he didn’t want it and so hasn’t opened it.

It’s an electrical item, brand new in sealed box, cost £35 and I’m selling at £24 including postage.

I have described it as an unwanted gift (which it was) and the price reflects a decent saving from going to a shop (as it arrives at buyers door too) but of course there is no 2yr. manufacturers warranty (unless I put the receipt in with the product, which in this case I could do as I paid cash.! 😂).
So for a buyer, that is the gamble, pay less, forgo the warranty. But, providing they check all is good upon receipt they should have bagged a bargain.
Any problems and they’ve still got 30 days to get eBay involved.

[vonchief]

When someone buys something, it immediately becomes preowned, even if the item is not used.
They can't sell it on as new because whoever buys it will not be the first owner.
There should be a "preowned-unused" option for such items.

This does not apply to a registered business buying stock from a supplier/wholesaler to sell as new.

[insidethe93]

"new old stock" sounds intuitive, and isn't wordy.

It'd cover me, for instance, were I to declutter the 2,000+ craft dies I own - many I bought new ages ago and I've since realised they're not what I want now, but they haven't been opened. Some, I know from browsing eBay, would be in great demand (e.g. certain makes or rare ones) but I don't sell on eBay, only buy. Btw, owning 2,000 craft dies isn't uncommon; somehow owners believe they own far fewer than they do.

Due to initial inefficient filing and plain forgetfulness (getting worse in old age), I own unopened duplicates or triplicates. If I was decluttering generally, I'd like to sell, say, 4 of the 5 of what I reckon was the best potato peeler I'd ever owned - 4 of them still unopened. I must've kept losing them but one day that wasn't a problem as I lost the potato too. Later I found it in the powder compartment of the washing machine 🙂

So anyway, basically there are plausible reasons why some people end up with items that, were they to sell on eBay, would make them look like they're business sellers masquarading as private sellers. It may not be possible to come up with a single straightforward measure to tell the difference.

[insidethe93]

A sub-category would be needed for items sold as "new" that are, say, artwork made-to-order. Do such items have a manufacturer's warranty? can they?

Some artwork is made from dies bought by an eBay seller that come directly or indirectly from firms that makes and sells dies, sometimes from a combination of dies from more than one manufacturer. Such selling is permissible under said those firms' 'angel policy' but I doubt if someone using those dies to make artwork to sell can offer a warranty except merely to accept a return. Actually, personally speaking, I believe that if an item is made-to-order, or an existing item is customised to order, that, for instance, cancellations and returns should not be allowed or if so then not be allowed a full refund as a matter of eBay policy (to compensate the seller's loss). I saw on an eBay thread recently (have searched, can't find it again) that a seller suffered a loss of time, energy and money due to buyers cancelling made-to-order items and having to refund them, and I felt that was unfair on the seller.

[insidethe93]

eBay's definition of "new" seems fine to me, and is used in charity shops and a shop I buy from that sources odds and ends from china sets for collectors or people wanting to replace a broken item in a set: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging (where packaging is applicable)

The provenance of an item is less relevant than the item's condition - it should be brand-new, unopened thus unused, [ideally] undamaged, in its original retail packaging. Oh look, I've ended up echoing eBay's definition.

The only difference I can see is the matter of warranty = return for full refund including return postage.

[vonchief]

There really needs to be a quick solution to this.
Can you imagine if market traders who pay for their stalls had someone set up next to them without paying, selling the same items cheaper?
It would be stopped straight away.

This is exactly what is happening on eBay.

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

 Do the other marketplaces have private and business seller accounts ???????

[the-nutwood-collection]

Etsy don't.  It's the same basic fee for all sellers. 

However, they have what amounts to an extra fee for sellers that exceed a turnover (I think) of $10k a year.  Once turnover hits this limit, the seller is compulsorily enrolled in their offsite ads campaign and, if you make a sale from an offsite ad, there are extra fees to pay.  Sellers who don't meet the turnover threshold aren't excluded from offsite ads, they can chose to participate.

[bravergrace]

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@vonchief wrote:

When someone buys something, it immediately becomes preowned, even if the item is not used.
They can't sell it on as new because whoever buys it will not be the first owner.
There should be a "preowned-unused" option for such items.

This does not apply to a registered business buying stock from a supplier/wholesaler to sell as new.

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Why doesn't it apply?

I don't follow your logic at all.

I've got some vintage underwear to list.  It's never been used, tags still attached, still in the wrapper.  Various items, all made between 1920 and 1960.  I bought it from a shop that was closing down.

By your logic, I need to list it as "used underwear", as I bought it from the retailer who'd ordered it from the manufacturer.  Surely you couldn't expect me to sell it as "Used underwear"?

I'm sorry, but I think you're plain wrong.  It isn't used.  It isn't new with defects.  It isn't anything but New With Tags.

You'd have everyone throw out perfectly good clothing on the basis that it had gone, unopened, through more than one pair of hands.  That's ludicrous.

[vonchief]

You seem to have misread my post.

I have not mentioned selling such items as used, only preowned-unused.

[the-nutwood-collection]

It's never been used, tags still attached, still in the wrapper.  Various items, all made between 1920 and 1960.  I bought it from a shop that was closing down.

Those items are just begging for a 'New Old Stock' descriptor. 

What was the shop doing holding stock that old?  Were they ever hopeful that one day someone would come in and ask to see a selection of boned corsets?  

[555njp]

No, you replied to my post and said once someone buys something it is no longer new.

but it doesn’t apply to businesses buying stock from a wholesaler to sell on?

Question asked is why doesn’t it apply to businesses?

Most on here are resellers, often buying from wholesale pallet companies and the like that have taken unopened stock back from shops. These are failed delivery, change of mind returns ex-display etc. etc…. Point is that they are still brand new in box, just been shipped about a bit and plenty of resellers are making their living selling this stock on here.

It is still new by definition but lacks original warranty.

If sold on by a business or private seller, purchased from the same source, why can a business say its New, yet a private seller be forced to say not new? Makes no sense.

[555njp]

Yes I listed a lot of vehicle parts under that description. New (unused) old stock (as I’d had it for years). Still in original retail packaging but had been in my lock up for 10 years or so.