20% off fees for a year?

[cotswold_curations]

Some folks in a group I'm in have been offered 20% (some more) off fees for a year if they sign a contract saying they won't sell anywhere else like Vinted or Depop for a year.

They are all clothing sellers.

I might start selling my everything stuff on Vinted, it's really not fair. 

Private account sellers get all the deals,

[jayfive2001]

"We've seen free selling for some private sellers" - indeed, and then they wonder why business sellers are leaving. They flood the market with people selling cheap items where they aren't bother about what they get for it and business sellers can't compete with someone paying 3% FVF on an item that will cost us 18% + promotions

[technthread]

See what happens, hopefully they update that form when it goes live and allow sole traders to register. It may just be a knowledge gap for now and they will sort it. 

If they do end up only allowing limited companies on there, I'm sure many people

will be willing to form one.

Until we see pro go live for a few months who knows how much impact it will have on eBay. I suspect there will be a lot of pushback from vinted buyers who don't like the idea of the site evolving in this way so the shift in buyer perception of the site is a risk. I'm sure some annoyed vinted buyers who feel vinted have betrayed what they are will come back and have a look at eBay auctions again.

[the_book_seekers]

At the moment ebay faces a problem with trying to get private sellers to list more. The perception for some, possibly many private sellers, the more they list the more likely they will come to the attention of HMRC.  

[theelench]

I haven't been "scared off" because of the new reporting regulations, as you mentioned in your previous post, but as a private seller they have made me think rather more carefully about my relationship with ebay.  (Rather than repeating myself here see my last post on the "How Many Sellers Are Closing Their Shops......" thread.)

Since the big push to PL and the further decline of my sales due to the wrecking of Collectables categories / introduction of IS searching I've seen two years of sales averaging 1 sale a month and I've only maintained that average by getting into more time wasting by regular re-listing as "Sell Similar" an increasing number of listings.

I'm 70, I'm down sizing, I spent 30 years book-keeping and filing tax returns and know what detail is required and how long it takes.  It's not as simple as "keep a note-book" as has been suggested, it requires every private seller who even thinks they might exceed the 30 item threshold, or £1700 to keep business style records every year and keep them for as long as HMRC can look back during any enquiry.  Just in case at some point in the future HMRC tightens the thresholds again, decides to question their private seller status, or (as has happened recently to benefit claimants and pensioners)  give themselves more powers to look into private financial affairs.

I'm tired of it all.  Many other private sellers wouldn't know where to begin and are frightened of any entanglement with HMRC, but in both cases the thinking is the same.  Namely,  is it worth all the hassle of record keeping (let alone the risk of an enquiry) to, in my case, sell 13 items a year for roughly £130 - £200?  

Selling those few items has become a hassle in itself, since PL arrived I feel it's pretty futile even listing on ebay as it's becoming increasingly clear that ebay wants the equivalent of 25% and will let private sellers sell virtually nothing unless they're willing to pay that.

So the answer is "No" ebay is no longer worth the time it takes me to sell anything with the odds well and truly stacked against me, let alone the additional time required by HMRC rules.

[btr.style]

Absolutely. It's like with some Barbour Beaufort jackets we recently stocked. 

One private business seller  in particular with 3 accounts that repeatedly undercuts us also had some of them. They always undercut us over and over due to getting the fee promo. I remember once just accepting it is what it is and opting to see what they are selling first and if we have it, we'd not list it until they sold theirs. I listed a coat they didn't have listed and it just so happened they had that coat too. As it wasn't fee promo time they turned another of their listings into this coat and undercut us. 

Anyway, with these Beaufort jackets, we had them listed around the same time as them recently for £180. They undercut us of course and started getting sales of them. Then, with this unlimited 100% off fees, they were able to drop their prices much further to clear their stock of these before April (when wax coat sales generally decline to not selling at all until Autumn), to £155. 

We just can't compete at that price, haven't sold any and because of them, they'll be packed away shortly until Autumn. At that £155 price with that fee promo, after postage they'll take around £65 profit with no returns to worry about. For us to sell them at £180 with full fees we'll make at best £60 profit and have the burden of returns accepted to further reduce profits if any are returned. 

That alone is a reason why our own store website is being developed and I'll also be using vinted business to sell when it becomes available. 

[returns_andexdisplay]

Feel your pain the with private sellers. I compete with loads with the stock I list. Again many have more than one account to take advantage of free listings and lower final value fees. ebay really need to look at the shop offering to businesse to start and the number of listings businesses get. I don't want the odd offering here and there. I want something you can plan for. 

[litp*records]

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@technthread wrote:

What irritates me is there are scattergun perks being sent out. Some private sellers get free fees until April, some business sellers get 20% off fees for a year like this one and others don't get a carrot. 

I have thousands of pounds of stock to list on eBay and I can't be bothered as psychologically they make me feel like I am being mugged off. Maybe I shouldn't read this forum and I wouldn't know about it and more fool me maybe for just breaking even on my shop fee and basic expenses each month but at the moment my enthusiasm for eBay is at an all time low. If they were more fair with their offers for everyone I would have a better feeling about it on here. 

---

Same.  Multiple tiers of pricing (fees) are always gona make you feel like a mug if you don't get them.  Like if only every third customer was allowed to get a Tesco Clubcard.  Would you still shop there if you had to pay more for the same items than the people in the queue behind you?  For no apparent reason.  It's a total scam.

Bring on Vinted Pro!

[the_book_seekers]

I know what you mean. ebay removes my selling limits, despite me never having got anywhere near them at any point since they were set over 15 years ago. While it's nice to get something other than a promoted listings offer, it is not going to get me listing more. I'd have to pay more in shop subscription/listing fees for no guaranteed increase in sales.  20% off fees for a year might have seen more listings but that hasn't come my way. 

[litp*records]

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@the_book_seekers wrote:

I know what you mean. ebay removes my selling limits, despite me never having got anywhere near them at any point since they were set over 15 years ago. While it's nice to get something other than a promoted listings offer, it is not going to get me listing more. I'd have to pay more in shop subscription/listing fees for no guaranteed increase in sales.  20% off fees for a year might have seen more listings but that hasn't come my way. 

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Woop de doo no selling limits!  What next, they'll give you a pat on the head and a cookie.  I can't afford to subsidise everyone else's fee discount.  Think there is a word for that in the adult entertainment industry beginning with c and ending in d.

[sagr2519]

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@theelench wrote:

(as has happened recently to benefit claimants and pensioners)  give themselves more powers to look into private financial affairs.

Just to clarify:

The new DWP powers haven't yet come into effect. They can of course look into bank accounts if they suspect fraud. The new powers will require banks to inform them if any claimant's account exceeds the capital limit or shows signs of living abroad.

[sheba-knows-best]

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@litp*records wrote:

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@the_book_seekers wrote:

I know what you mean. ebay removes my selling limits, despite me never having got anywhere near them at any point since they were set over 15 years ago. While it's nice to get something other than a promoted listings offer, it is not going to get me listing more. I'd have to pay more in shop subscription/listing fees for no guaranteed increase in sales.  20% off fees for a year might have seen more listings but that hasn't come my way. 

---

Woop de doo no selling limits!  What next, they'll give you a pat on the head and a cookie.  I can't afford to subsidise everyone else's fee discount.  Think there is a word for that in the adult entertainment industry beginning with c and ending in d.

---

Do you mean beginning with C and ending in T? I'm not really up on the adult entertainment industry but I can't think of anything beginning with C and ending with D...  all clues gratefully received...

[exponential_developments]

Similar sounding word to cuckoo........worlds gone down a hole.

[theelench]

Yes, I understand that but my point was that ebay sellers and the whole "Side Hustle" thing shouldn't be seen in isolation.

IMO it's one part of a wider push to increase oversight of personal finances by the govt..  The re-defining of State Pensions as a "Benefit", bringing any recipient within reach of "anti-fraud" checks.  Any claimant of a benefit can be subject to the same checks.  By 2025, ebay sellers and those on any other site will also be included.

Taken together and added to already existing monitoring by PAYE / Self Assessment it seems like a big step towards "Big Brother" watching everything we do.

To paraphrase "The Police"  --  "Every sale you make.  Every pound you take.  We'll be watching you."

[british-ceramics-and-paintings]

I don't understand the approach Ebay seems to take.

Raise fees for jewellery sellers (many of whom will be business sellers) whilst at the same time offering private sellers 80% off of final value fees and offering deals for some sellers to list exclusively on the platform.

It's a little bizarre.

Why not focus on offering business sellers a better offering and a bit of goodwill and incentives to grow their businesses on the platform. For the last few years there has been very little goodwill shown to business sellers. It's just been a squeeze them as much as we can approach.

[theelench]

Perhaps just the cost to ebay?  Remember ebay doesn't give anything away because it's kind hearted, it expects to make a profit from every bit of its generosity.

Some believe that 80% of ebays turnover / profits come from 20% of its sellers, they will be businesses.  Give them, or business sellers in general, a FVF discount could cost ebay a huge amount.

Private sellers are probably thinner on the ground than ever before.  80% off FVF sounds  very attractive to someone listing a few unwanted goods, but as with the up to 1000 free listings, how many items do they actually list?  How many do they sell?

Many private sellers who won't play the PL game only sell a small proportion of what they do list and what % of private sellers get a FVF reduction regularly anyway?   Some have said that they think the whole 80% off offers are a trick because they so rarely sell anything they list under an offer.

So how much does 80% off the FVFs  of an isolated group of small volume sellers constitute in terms of a loss to ebay?  Probably in ebay's financial terms, nothing very much.

And as some-one said (on another thread?)  every extra ad. that a private seller lists under an offer gives ebay another opportunity to splatter it with 20 - 30 PL ads. from business sellers.

And as I've said many times, who knows while they are tending their ads. progress and sales (or lack of) they might just find something to buy, possibly from a business seller.

[british-ceramics-and-paintings]

Goodwill and incentives aimed at business sellers could be viewed as an investment, it shouldn't be viewed as a cost.

[technthread]

'Some have said that they think the whole 80% off offers are a trick because they so rarely sell anything they list under an offer'

If that is true it would be a damning indictment of the eBay search if the items were sought after. I don't sell much on here and don't get a fee promotion but I never get the impression that if I list something decent people won't find it. I listed a DC comic yesterday just under the lowest price on ebay (mine was pre-owned the other sellers' were new), it got an immediate watcher and I knew it should sell within a day and it did no problem. Maybe it depends on the category. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@returns_andexdisplay wrote:

I think they may of tried this a long time ago but competition laws are not allowed to state things like this. Companies can't even tell you what price you have to sell at or they can get find a percentage of turnover. 

---

Competition law does not allow any party in the supply chain to engage in price fixing. However, this isn't what eBay are claimed to be doing; the claim is that sellers receiving this invitation are being asked to contractually agree not to sell their items through any other marketplace. So, the seller could list their items for whatever price they liked as long as the only marketplace they sold their items through was eBay. I haven't received any such invitation but I'm guessing the terms of the contract - if it does indeed exist - do not prevent a seller from listing their items on their own website as well as eBay (for example).

I assumed this type of agreement would be perfectly legal - I know supermarkets and high street retailers have historically had similar arrangements with their suppliers. Whilst eBay's business sellers are not eBay's suppliers - despite how blurred a line that is - I didn't think there would be anything in competition law preventing eBay making such an offer to selected sellers. That was, until I read this:

"Other anti-competitive activities

You must avoid other activities that break competition law, eg:

• having long-term exclusive contracts with any customers or suppliers"  

I wondered what the legalese definition of a "long-term contract" is. After quite a bit of googling it seems the most accepted definition is "a contract with a duration exceeding one year". The thread title indicates the offer is for one year so if the offer does exist eBay have at least managed to keep it within what competition law would allow.

I can only assume eBay are very worried about Vinted's UK plans.   

[theelench]

Whichever way we want to look at it, I'm sure ebay will have done its sums and decided that (IMO) for relatively little outlay it gets an adequate return on its investment by giving some private sellers 80% off FVFs every couple of weeks.

For whatever reason ebay doesn't see itself getting an adequate return from making similar offers to higher volume sellers who are businesses, so doesn't give them.

I remember, back when the "standard" offer to private sellers was the "£1 Max. FVF" weekends, there was a flurry of variations.  I don't remember how close they were to the "£1 max." being dis-continued and its replacement by the current "80 / 70% off FVFs".  

Perhaps this flurry of new offers to limited (?) numbers of sellers is another test-run as ebay has another re-think about how much and to whom it gives offers?  Perhaps finessing its figures on cost / investment to returns?

It also crossed my mind that in February the "February Club" 'celabrated' a year since it was formed by a group of sellers who suddenly lost their "80%" offers one year before.  Perhaps an indication that ebay was adjusting the numbers to make its calculations of profit / loss consistent?

For whatever reason I've not seen any change or new offer.  I still have selling limits and still got an 80% offer last weekend  --  perhaps I'm in the "unchanged" base category against which these new offers will be compared?  As always ebay leaves a lot un-said and open to speculation until it's formulated its new strategy to surprise us all with but, fingers crossed, they might see some merit in giving some offers to business sellers. 

[british-ceramics-and-paintings]

Just for the record I don't expect Ebay to give business sellers 80% off of final value fees however they could encourage business sellers more, i.e. think outside the box a little to entice business sellers to want to do more on the platform.

For example if you grow your montly revenues by 30% in three months you get a final value fee credit of 20% for the next month. This may not be perfect however it shows some sort of support for business sellers. The simple reality is the better business sellers do the better Ebay does, they need to play a bit of a part in it.

Ebay doesn't encourage any sort of growth on the platform, their input is to tell sellers to sell for less, offer coupons, run sales etc etc, in this day and age they should be coming up with a little more than this.