The Scottish Referendum rears its head again.

[pillarboxred]

Just before the referendum, the Daily Record (Scottish tabloid newspaper) printed a sensational front page displaying a "Vow" to the people of Scotland apparently signed by the three leaders of the Better Together parties. The content of the vow was nebulous and it would have been hard in the future to tax any of the leaders for breach of promise in regard to any particular set out therein, but I and many others believed that the leaders had signed up to it. It looked naff, like an Internet family history scroll but what the heck? It received a lot of notice. The only problem is that it was a forged document. Forged. A forgery, if the term has a meaning here is an example. We are going to hear a lot more about this. It used facsimile signatures to represent to the public that the leaders had agreed to the contents and signed them as witness. This is now revealed as not true; it was manufactured by the Daily Record, Scotland's second largest mass circulation newspaper and was probably seen by a majority of the public even if only in passing when buying the Telegraph or Financial Times. Just when it seemed the country was "getting back to normal", "moving on" the whole issue is open like a gangrene sore.

[cee-dee]

[pillarboxred]

There are many very angry people, they have been seething since the vote, and they are not rare; I don't think this issue can be ignored. Some of the allegations of vote rigging and invalid ballot papers have seemed wild, wishful thinking by the disappointed but
forgery by the Better Together campaign would be an alarming revelation striking at the legitimacy of the election and public authorities if it goes unpunished.

[danthescan]

Makes no difference now as the 3 amigos are all on a downward spiral.

Who would believe a vow from Clegg after the student fees pledge anyway.

Its not over and will bite them all in the  sooner rather than later.

[al**bear]

It had NOTHING to do with the  Political parties, there never ever a written/signed Vow

It was made up by the paper  - nobody else was involved

About time the losers either gave up or emigrated and leave us happy with the result to get on with it

Plenty people weren't happy with giving the Scottish Government MORE powers, we wanted powers taken away from the numpties in Holyrood.

[al**bear]

There was voter fraud

In Dundee - more teenagers registered to vote than live in the City -  a YES area

Glasgow/Lanarkshire, loads of suspect votes, ALL for the YES side in areas that they won

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btw

Remember the SNP White paper (cost Tax payers over £1mil to print) , full of promises, that they couldn't afford

That was based on an Oil price of $120 a barrel (and  still couldn't pay for them), well now Oil is $86. Goldmann Sachs say it might fall to $73 next year

[pillarboxred]

Plenty people weren't happy with giving the Scottish Government MORE powers, we wanted powers taken away from the numpties in Holyrood.

That's a point of view, however my post is not about unfulfilled promises, or unfulfillable promises, it is about forgery; the creation of a false document in order to mislead. The context is important: a Viz or Private Eye front cover is a very different context to a daily newspaper's front page. The links between the newspaper and the politicians are unknown and might not exist or be very informal, or close.

There is a difference between claiming "you will be richer if you vote for me" and handing someone a bundle of hundred Pounds notes you have printed in your attic. The second instance involves forgery. This newspaper story involves forgery, there is a false document you can point to which is not the same kind of thing as a story which you might or might not believe.

[pillarboxred]

Yes, stories like this are flying around from various quarters but have not yet been properly substantiated. Investigations are needed.

The Daily Record front cover is a fact, it is held in copyright libraries, it exists ,and it is a false document.

[pillarboxred]

What are we looking at? It is so easy to mess around with Photoshop and post the results online. It is not helpful. Have I been fooled by a Facebook joker or propagandist?

[pillarboxred]

Here is the Daily Record's page about the Vow. 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron-ed-miliband-nick-4265992

Maybe it is not a complete invention, but we need to know whether the document displayed was legitimate. 

[bhgardeners]

Seething?  Well as an English person I am indeed seething.  Forgery or not, documented or not, the 3 party leaders promised more power to Scotland and with the Barnett formula that basically means the English pay and the Welsh and Irish get shortchanged and the English get no say in it because the party leaders promised.  Not that their promises are worth anything but I thought Parliament was there to stop megalomaniacs leaders taking unilateral action.

Sorry but if the paper forged a document surely that would be a matter for the police.

[evoman3957]

Unfortunately, for many, it's got very little to do with the pros and cons of any one particular party.......ergo; "Party Politics". This Country has descended into "Tribal" allegiances ( if indeed it ever climber out of that very primitive and uneducated mindset ). It's just the UK version of Shia and Suni, with a few other tribes on the periphery thrown in, and with their own slightly more civilised slant put on the whole thing. As per tribal culture, some are more OTT about it that others; but one thing is common..........a Brain is wasted on all of them, because they don't use it............I'll let them into a little secret........If you don't like a Party, don't vote for it. If you don't like a person, don't vote for them and if you don't like a "Gang", don't be in it................it's called individualism.......novel idea isn't it !!

[pillarboxred]

This post is not really about the politics of Independence it is about whether a crime might have been committed by forging and  publishing what appeared to be a signed undertaking by the leaders of the Better Together campaign, when no such document exists. 

[pillarboxred]

Whether forgery is a crime, I don't really know but it is usually a scandal.

[cee-dee]

A bit like Slander or Defamation of Character?

[evoman3957]

But knowing Politicians as We do and knowing the Press as we do and knowing how the Police are prepared to turn a blind Eye, when it is in the right peoples interest to do so, why are We so flabbergasted any more. We've got three of the most corrupt groups of people in this Country, right there, running things and backing them up................but the British are so tolerant and understanding aren't they........over so many things......as we KEEP being told. So, if all of a sudden people want to draw a line in the sand, as late in the Day as it may be, fine...........but it better be the majority and they better be prepared to get off their backsides to do it.

[al**bear]

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@pillarboxred wrote:

Here is the Daily Record's page about the Vow. 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron-ed-miliband-nick-4265992

Maybe it is not a complete invention, but we need to know whether the document displayed was legitimate. 

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Why are you still asking if it's genuine - it was made up by the newspaper - end of - the Political leaders had NOTHING to do with it.  This all comes from that raving lunatic Stuart Campbell aka Wings over Scotland

The Political leaders never ever signed a Vow, he was mischief making by asking Ed Milibans office for a copy

[pillarboxred]

I think his asking for a copy was perfectly reasonable.  I, like many others, thought a paper document had been signed.

The Electoral Commission have replied to my query. They say that there are no restrictions on what can be said by politcal parties in electioneering although their spending on publicity must not go over the statutory limits. (Clever use of social media can probably massively extend the reach of advertising budgets and generate free publicity, but that is legitimate.) The Commission does not say the Vow front cover was or was not a forgery but advises that the matter can be taken up elsewhere. Here is what they said:

"The role of the Electoral Commission for the Scottish Independence Referendum, as set out in the Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013 (the Act), has been to advise on the referendum question, regulate campaign spending and donations, and write a report on the referendum. The Act places no restrictions on what any campaigner can say or produce at any time during the referendum campaign as long as they stay within the spending limits that have been set by the Scottish Parliament and follow the guidance that we have issued. The Act similarly does not place any restrictions on what news outlets can broadcast about the referendum. Newspapers are covered by their own editorial guidelines managed by IPSO https://www.ipso.co.uk/IPSO/. I would therefore advice you to contact IPSO and raise your concern if you believe the Daily Record has acted in a misleading manner."

Forgery has a useful place in fooling the public in electioneering by allies of the main political parties: the Conservatives, Lib Dems and Labour. Keep this in mind from now on.

[papko]

All this forgery business and Westminster skulduggery .

 the Scottish people should seize the opportunity and declare UDI .

 Well at least the parts of Scotland which actually contain Scots , like Glasgow and Dundee .

Let them break away for Westminster and the JImmy Saville coverup , and start transforming the lives of the people in those cities today , with radical left wings policies , redistribution of wealth , and civilised levels of social help for those in mos t, need , especialy those suffering  the most from the Bedroom Tax , and having to shop at discount supermarkets , for non branded  frozen food .

[pillarboxred]

Discount supermarkets and unadvertised brands are great as long as they comply on ingredients. Independence is not about gourmet shopping.