Living in the third world

[fallen-archie]

Would anyone agree that our road surfaces are becoming as bad as many third world countries, how much more tax should the motorist pay in order to secure a decent standard of maintenance, Is it time for a rethink on how we get around, are we spending too much time driving around simply because we can. I travelled on the M6 toll road recently and there was barely any traffic on it, lovely road surface and great to drive for that brief period, perhaps all our motorways and A roads should be tolled with motorists paying after they reach a certain number of miles per annum. Any ideas?

[jd.linklater]

I agree, our roads in general are very poorly maintained. Parts of our motorway network are a disgrace, it's a shame that some of the money that is being spent on HS2 couldn't be more widely and more wisely spent to improve things across the whole country. I don't know what the rest of Europe's roads are like but I know that the French network puts ours to shame, probably because tolls are paid to support their upkeep just like the M6 toll road you mentioned. They really are a joy to drive on in comparison to ours, no endless miles of traffic cones and reduced speed limits, no contraflow systems, very few speed traps. Even the service areas are a huge improvement on ours, they actually make it a pleasure to stop and take a break. Fantastic menus on the whole, very well laid out car parking and picnic areas. Many of them even have shower blocks which are much needed in hot weather. If the only thing that is required to get our motorways up to a similar level is to make them toll roads I'm all for it.

As for local roads, I find this site extremely useful for reporting potholes, littering, fly tipping etc. I seem to get a better response than when I report things to our local council.

https://www.fixmystreet.com/

[dark_castle1]

sorry archie but I do not agree with making motorways and A roads toll roads, especially when the tax on fuel here in the UK is the highest in Europe.

Excise duty, tax on fuel ! Now where does all that money go, certainly not to the upkeep of roads.

What about low paid workers that need to travel quite a distance to work simply because there is very little or even no jobs in their area.

I myself travel 34 miles each way to my job and looking forward to April when I will get the forced pay rise to the new living wage.

[fallen-archie]

I agree with both posts, I suppose my comments were a bit tongue in cheek given that councils have to cut budgets and roads are a soft option. Once again at the heart of this is overal spending be it on health, benefits, defence etc. Once upon a time instead of cutting spending a Sherrif would be despatched to plunder towns and villages of their wealth, perhaps we need a modern day Robin Hood

The alternative is to give workers a true living wage in order that they may control their own expenditure. It would also be interesting to see what would happen if you gave people some direct choice on how tax should be apportioned, bet that would be an eye opener.👀

[suzieseaside]

Yes our roads (and pavements here) are in appalling condition, but should we pay vehicle tax to be allowed to have our vehicles on the road AND expect to pay tolls as well (plus the high tax on fuel)? No, I don't think so.

I may be wrong but I don't think the French pay an annual vehicle tax for private cars. I think they have to pay something for large vehicles, some additional business vehicles etc, and if the C emissions are high.

Only about one quarter of our vehicle tax collected by the Government each year is spent on road maintenance / improvement. Who's to say it would be any better if we had to pay tolls to use the road. I expect it would just be another tax to be spent on something else.

[bankhaunter]

but should we pay vehicle tax to be allowed to have our vehicles on the road

You don't pay tax to have a vehicle on the road, you pay a duty based on emissions and fuel type.

[suzieseaside]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

You don't pay tax to have a vehicle on the road, you pay a duty based on emissions and fuel type.

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From the Government website:  "To drive or keep a vehicle on the road you will still need to get vehicle tax"... "and you must tax it before you use it"

The Govt calls it a tax on their website as well as VED, whether or not the vehicle is free to 'tax' or requires payment based on emissions or engine size. Maybe you should tell them they are wrong to use the word tax interchangeably with duty since that seems to be the problem you have brought up.  Should we have displayed a Duty Disc, not a Tax Disc? 

'I almost added a sentence this morning in case someone felt the need to be pedantic.  Yes, I know it's a vehicle excise duty or alternatively just called vehicle tax (which is what I called it).  It could be called a pollution tax I suppose, although the revenue just goes into the general coffers. Nevertheless many people have to pay a vehicle tax, or duty in your world, to use or park on a public road, unless the vehicle is pre- 1975 or you have a car with very low carbon emissions (the exact amount depending on year of registration- post 2001, or post-2010).  

you pay a duty based on emissions and fuel type. 

My turn to be pedantic - Not entirely true.  Cars registered before 1st March 2001 (as mine is) are taxed according to engine size.

I gather that pre-1975 vehicles are exempt because of an 'assumed' limited use, regardless of emissions.  Frustrating that you have to pay vehicle tax to park a vehicle on a road even when it won't go while waiting for repairs ( I had to do that for 6 months with nowhere to SORN it).

So, Road Tax was abolished in 1937, but this may be coming back in the sense that all revenue may be invested in roads at the end of the decade (see end).  Still, it's no wonder many people call it road tax when even the DVLA have advertised it as such in an advert, made in 2002, saying GET YOUR ROAD TAX   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXoUJN1O8i0

And journalists all over the place often refer to Vehicle tax as Road tax in their articles, even specialist Car magazines.  No need to read the links, either the titles of the websites or short extracts from the texts show they write about 'road tax'

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/88361/tax-disc-changes-everything-you-need-to-kn... A major shake-up of the way UK road tax rates are calculated is just around the corner

https://www.carwow.co.uk/tax-exempt-cars    Road Tax Free Cars 2016

http://classics.honestjohn.co.uk/news/comment/2015-03/classic-car-tax-exemption-what-you-need-to-kno...

Cars built before 1976 will qualify for free road tax from 1 April 2016, Chancellor George Osborne has announced.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motoring-issues/2015/budget-2015-how-it-affects-uk-motorists/

Road tax overhauled

http://www.disabledmotoring.org/motoring/road-tax-exemption

And tax guides and money advice sites refer to it as road tax

http://www.thetaxguide.co.uk/what-does-road-tax-pay-for.html   

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-insurance/blog/car-tax-and-off-road-vehicles/  If you don’t take or keep your vehicle on public roads, perhaps because it is kept permanently in a garage or on private land, you do not have to pay road tax, or display a tax disc, on it.

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/car-tax-bands-explained  Car tax (officially known as VED but sometimes referred to as road tax)

Newspapers-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/picturegalleries/8822630/Top-10-cheap-cars-with-no-road-tax.html

There are dozens of references to Road Tax instead of Vehicle tax - no wonder there is confusion!

BUT it seems that Road Tax may be back soon since Osborne announced last year that all the revenue would be used for Road improvements in 2020-21.  Whether he will, or whether he will change his mind, who knows

http://road.cc/content/news/156795-road-tax-back-chancellor-announces-vehicle-excise-duty-reforms-wi...

Osborne said:

“I will return this tax to the use for which it was originally intended. I am creating a new roads fund from the end of this decade – every single penny raised from VED in England will go into that fund to pay for that sustained investment our roads so badly need.”

[bankhaunter]

Osborne said:

“I will return this tax to the use for which it was originally intended. I am creating a new roads fund from the end of this decade – every single penny raised from VED in England will go into that fund to pay for that sustained investment our roads so badly need.”

Politian speak for  "I'm going to raise taxes and make it sound like a good thing".

It's always been referred to as road tax but as you said, that's not been true since 1937

[******lynda******]

our roads are dreadful. The best maintained ones have speed humps, but since a speed hump is basically an inverted pothole, I think leaving potholes is cheap traffic calming exercise. 

[suzieseaside]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

Osborne said:

“I will return this tax to the use for which it was originally intended. I am creating a new roads fund from the end of this decade – every single penny raised from VED in England will go into that fund to pay for that sustained investment our roads so badly need.”

Politian speak for  "I'm going to raise taxes and make it sound like a good thing".

It's always been referred to as road tax but as you said, that's not been true since 1937

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Very true. No doubt he was worried because so many new vehicles have low enough emissions to exempt them from any payment for the tax.  I gather that 75% of vehicles purchased last year would have been free to tax.  I suppose emissions were a good approach to encourage development and purchase of cleaner cars but it's tougher on those who can only afford to buy older second hand cars and who probably travel shorter distances too. 

People with new cars in 2017 that cost over £40,000 will have to pay a £310 supplement for 5 years.  Still, I guess if you can afford a car that expensive, it won't be a hardship.

@LOL @ lynda with the potholes.  Mind you there are some so deep on the side of a country road around here that 2 people I know damaged a wheel on the same hole.  I hit it once when pulling in for a fast vehicle coming towards me but fortunately did no obvious damage.  I wonder if the Council could be made to pay compensation for vehicles damaged?  That might encourage them to make repairs to the worst ones.

Handy to know of that link you posted, jd. I'll try that if the offending hole is still there when I next go that way.

[bankhaunter]

75% Wow, I didn't realise it was that high, you may well be right.

I was outside the workshop in London about 8.00 am on a Saturday when I met an irate chap with a camera.

He had hit a pothole the night before which had damaged his scooter and wanted to take a picture of it to make a claim.

Unfortunately the road was due to be resurfaced and they had already scraped the top surface off before he got there.

[goldenwonders]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

75% Wow, I didn't realise it was that high, you may well be right.

I was outside the workshop in London about 8.00 am on a Saturday when I met an irate chap with a camera.

He had hit a pothole the night before which had damaged his scooter and wanted to take a picture of it to make a claim.

Unfortunately the road was due to be resurfaced and they had already scraped the top surface off before he got there.

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Pity - had he got there and taken photo's before they scraped the surface, he may have had a case. From what I understand if a pothole is reported to a council and it has not been repaired 2 weeks later.. and after that date you damage your vehicle, you are entitled to make a claim against the council concerned. Apparently the key is it being reported and 2 weeks elapsing with the council not having taken action to repair.

[fallen-archie]

That is true and if we all used it then things could get marginally better.
What about the latest plan to increase the number of smart motorways? Sold as a means of reducing congestion watch out for speeding fines dropping through the door as computers strictly control a variable speed regime. Yet more money taken from the motorist for use elsewhere.