What will happen to sellers that fail to provide their National Insurance number?

[thatonechonkis]

Due to the fact that ebay will now be asking you for NI if you make over £1,770 or 30 sales in 1 year, what will happen to those that fail to provide their NI?

[jckl1957]

From this document:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/account/regulatory/sales-reporting/uk-digital-sales-reporting?id=5454

Tip
If you are required to do so but don't provide the requisite information, your account may be subject to payout holds or selling blocks.

[prescott9376]

Like many questions to do with the new regulations I doubt anyone will be able to give you an answer that is any more than an opinion.

My own guess is that any seller not willing to give this info will be restricted from selling & although anyone wanting to open a new account may have to give their NI number I dont see that it can be forced retrospectively.

I also doubt any Govt Dept, such as HMRC, would try to force British Citizens to hand over such sensitive info to a foriegn commercial company as it could raise questions of Liability & responsibility.

On a personal level I wouldnt be complying. Another site I use wanted that info a few months ago, in order to sell to the US. For European sellers it was mandatory for British sellers they only had to provide if they wanted to continue selling to the US.

Their forums are now full of topics from American members wanting to know which sellers will sell to them.

I wont be handing over my bank username & password either.

[brindsey]

Simple and to the point.  eBay have no alternative but to comply with government legislation.  End of. No NINO, no selling.  They have no option, this matter is out of their hands.

My opinion.

[jckl1957]

I agree.

And they were prompt and upfront with the information.

I don't have an issue with giving them mine - It's 51 years since it was issued and I have worked for numerous companies, been paid by 'umbrella companies', and now my NI Number appears on my bank account when I get my pension payments.  I can't see how it could be misused.

[theelench]

That's my opinion as well.  Ebay has no option to not send the the sales data along with a Tax Identification Number (TIN) to HMRC for anyone selling over either of the thresholds.

I also agree with the opinion expressed on the thread on this board  --   "Vinted have updated their T&C's...." that you started, that to ebay this is an obligation they would much rather not have, but they have no choice but to comply with govt. legislation.

When I started buying and selling on ebay using paypal I thought about my security and set up a second current bank account for use in e-commerce, totally separate from any real world financial product, most of which use my NINO as an identifier.  If I give it to ebay, in the event of identity theft, the thieves will have a direct connection to my current accounts, ISAs, savings, pensions and wages, that's something I'm not going to risk. 

[brindsey]

12 Months ago, I would have felt secure no one would gain access to my bank account, after all the sort code, account number and my name appeared on any cheque I issued.

In August last year I was cold called by a company selling white goods insurance.  I hung up as I knew the scam.  A few days later they stole £160 from my account, having set up a direct debit via the Bacs system. They had obtained my details through the Curry's data breach.  Another story here, but I don't want to go  too far off topic.

The point being that, yes, I can understand anyone's reticence at handing over ANY personal information.  But, what exactly can you do with a National Insurance number?  I honestly don't know, and would welcome enlightenment.

Meanwhile, eBay have to obtain this information.  This is government legislation and I think no NINO, no selling/payment.  The onus is on eBay to keep this information secure, their very existence now depends on their level of commitment to security and their ability to convince their sellers that there will be no breaches.   Just how they're going to do that I don't know.

The OECD rules and commentary have been years in the making (as far back I believe as 2020) so surely they've had considerable boardroom consultation as to the way forward?  

Doesn't look like it does it?  Right now they just seem to be kicking for touch.

Rant over. Thanks for reading.

[magpiecorner1]

You're dealing with a company who will already have details of the national insurance numbers of many business sellers, and the US equivalent to NI of every US seller on eBay.com - this issue was raised there a few years ago - so I can't imagine them cutting any slack.

Especially as the whole point of the exercise is to determine if anyone is underpaying tax.  Addresses and names change, even genders, NI numbers never do - I got mine when I was 12.

[brindsey]

"on eBay.com - this issue was raised there a few years ago - so I can't imagine them cutting any slack."

That's good to know, and I'm glad of that.  

[clearingmyshelves2024]

www.sunnyavenue.co.uk/insight/what-can-someone-do-with-your-national-insurance-number

[jckl1957]

Ultimately, it is a choice.

You can provide Ebay with your NI number and continue to sell, or you can refuse and potentially face payment holds or selling blocks.

Nobody has to sell on Ebay.

If you choose to, then you have to provide the information they ask for.

[papso22]

I suspect that there will be a separate 'naughty list' sent to HMRC of those over the thresholds who refused to provide the tax identifier information.  They may well get special treatment from HMRC as already proven to be non compliant in one way at least.

Looking at your sales and 14,0000 current listings on a private account, you would be on that special list.

[jefftopman]

eBay has your full name and date of birth. Your NI number is readily avalable to HMRC with only a few clicks of their keyboard. So it does not make much difference whether you supply it or not, that is even if eBay were to  ask you for it.

[jckl1957]

I think the issue other members have (or are saying they have) is that they specifically do not want to hand over their NINO to Ebay.   I have already said in this thread:

'I don't have an issue with giving them mine - It's 51 years since it was issued and I have worked for numerous companies, been paid by 'umbrella companies', and now my NI Number appears on my bank account when I get my pension payments. I can't see how it could be misused.'

[theelench]

Perhaps re-read post #10, the bit that I find particularly worrying is where it goes into details of "in combination with....", when ebay already has virtually every other personal identifier on the list.

I've had several jobs and use UK banks, all of which are reputable companies based in the UK, owned by British investors and (mainly) run by UK citizens.  They are undoubtedly subject to UK law and Data Protection legislation. 

Unlike ebay that's an international corporation, well known for doing anything that helps its bottom line and has a string of convictions for breaking US laws.  Once I give ebay.uk my NINO who really knows where it will be stored or backed-up and what use it will put to once off-shored.   

Whose jurisdiction does such data come under?  In the event of data theft  are UK safe-guards and regs. still applicable?  And I wonder how much luck British regulators would have if they turn up in San Jose demanding to inspect ebay HQ's on-line security? 

IMO it's either the OECD, The Chancellor or HMRC acting on his instructions that are acting irresponsibly on this occasion, ebay might be happy to be handed another set of data to add to its collection, but it also knows it will suffer a loss of sellers and sales because of it, as it did so when the US govt. introduced the same sort of measure.

[kempseykate]

For those that say they can't see how it can be misued. My OH has recently had issues with his private pension provider. So far we know one pension pack (with his name and wrong address) has been delivered elsewhere, 2 more that have been sent have still not arrived here, so we don't know if they are lost or have again been delivered elsewhere.
Anyone who has recived those packs has some of his details, including the full details of his pension payout. At the moment they don't have his NI number - but if they were able to get hold of that due to a breach by one of the sites holding it, then, bingo, they have all they need to pass all the security questions when they ring the company.

I too am not keen on giving my NI number to ebay - I have no problem with HMRC having it, and as pointed out a couple of posts ago, ebay have my full name and date of birth, so HMRC could find my NI number quickly enough. I don't even like the fact that I have to use my 'official' name on ebay since verification, I would prefer buyers and sellers I deal with to only be able to see a nickname. I even had to check before verification that I had given them my true d.o.b, as again, I didn't feel they needed to know that info. As it happens I had.

[equinox-electronics]

When ebay do ask for national insurance numbers I will just sit here with my popcorn watching the community board go into meltdown 😅 

[jckl1957]

I did look at the SOURCE of the link on post 10 - a nearly new company with one (not great) review on Trustpilot and a handful of employees.

I am surprised that people were happy to click on that link, which takes you away from this site to an unknown source ... but are reluctant to give Ebay their National Insurance Numbers,

Anyway, my views are clear.  Sometimes, as an adult, you just have to agree to differ.  So, let's do that.

[sumnites]

HMRC and ebay will have names, addresses and postcodes. Surely they can find a peson and their tax records without the need and the risk of providing NINO?  Reading re the risks when someone like ebay has that info a scammer can call, pretend, threaten etc

[theelench]

Certainly.

Best wishes !