I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

In light of all this HMRC data collection ( which I'm a massive fan of, I pay my taxes ) I wonder when eBay will send out messages to accounts asking for N.I numbers? Saw an article earlier that states by 1st Jan next year, the sooner the better imo 

Message 1 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

Not all sellers will be required to supply this information.

You don't give the source of your screenshot but this is what Ebay state here:

UK digital sales reporting | eBay.

 

'If your tax identification information is not yet stored in your eBay account and you've met either of the thresholds, you will see a banner in your seller dashboard and receive an email asking you to provide the respective information.'

"There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
Søren Kierkegaard, Danish philosopher (1813 - 1855)
Message 2 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

Where did you find that snippet?

 

Existing sellers will only have to supply a tax identification number (NI or UTR) if they exceed the limits set. 

Your attachment suggests that new sellers will have to supply something from the start. I can see that putting some off joining if correct.

 

I'd imagine that ebay will contact current sellers as and when we trip the limits.

 

 

Message 3 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

It'll be interesting to see how quickly they get going with this. They say when you hit one of the thresholds but they certainly haven't started yet.

Message 4 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

Keep an eye on the Community Boards.

I am sure it won't be too long before the question of the day is: 'Why is Ebay asking for my National Insurance number?'

"There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
Søren Kierkegaard, Danish philosopher (1813 - 1855)
Message 5 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

This is going to make the fallout from managed payment look tiny by comparison. 

Message 6 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

As ebay reporting to HMRC only started from 1/1/24 private and "private" sellers should start getting emails once they hit one or other of the thresholds?

For many of the former, they will never get one.  For some of the latter, they may get one quite quickly?

 

Would I be wrong in thinking there could to be all kinds of confusion where one seller is operating both a business and a private account?

 

I think the sticking point for many private sellers will be what appears to be ebay going 'above and beyond' and will be gleefully demanding NINOs from all "individual" sellers.  That's not reporting those who hit a threshold and will include large numbers who are genuinely selling their own property. Have possibly been doing so for years and never hit either threshold.

 

I think ebay (and HMRC?) need to be open, is this really about catching tax evaders or data gathering for its own sake so it can be sold on, or more govt. snooping under the guise of tax collection?

 

One thing I notice is that the OP screen shot refers to "Individual Sellers".  That's not what "Private Sellers" are usually called on .uk, it's the term used on .com.  So is the screenshot taken from the US, where ebay has already tried to get the American equivalent of NINOs from all sellers and which from what I remember didn't go too well.

I don't think it will go down well here either.

 

 

 

Message 7 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers


@theelench wrote:

 

Would I be wrong in thinking there could to be all kinds of confusion where one seller is operating both a business and a private account?

 

 


I can't see that happening - the NI number will be linked to a private account and the CRN or UTR to the business account, I wouldn't expect them to be lumped together in a report.

 

I would suspect though, like managed payments, eBay will be asking for this information from all sellers pretty soon, not when it's reporting time or sellers reach a threshold. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I was implementing this I'd be asking for those numbers over the next few months, just to ensure that the system is in place.  

Message 8 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

I saw an article about NI numbers on Apple business news about a week ago.

Message 9 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

If ebay is going to ask for NIs from new sellers I can see a change to site t&cs making it requirement to be able to continue selling even if limits have not been reached. Private sellers need to be prepared for this as a  possibility. 

Message 10 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

I imagine the more realistic option is people stop bothering and either do car boot sales, or give it to charity shops, average Jo can't be doing with more hassle.

Message 11 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

Ahh yes, I'd forgotten about the UTR from when I was Self-Employed.

Message 12 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

Again, as when MP was introduced and bank account details became a requirement of selling anything on ebay, I think some business sellers are underestimating how difficult many non-business people find this sort of demand.

 

We've been told forever that NINOs should be kept as secret as possible, not handed out to any company that wants them for fear of identity theft.

Most people have probably never filed a Tax Return in their working lives and even the mention of possibly having to do so will terrify them, especially since the govt. adopted the tactic of increasing its income by the widespread use of fines for late submission, incorrect figures and interest on late payment.

 

Even the self-employed, often with only the simple/ short form to contend with, will employ an accountant because they lack the confidence to deal with the paper-work and on-line filing.  How will this go down with those who, even if employed part-time or never having been employed at all, have only a vague idea of what their NINO is or where to find it?

 

As someone said above, this will make the fall out from the requirements for MP registration look like a storm in a tea-cup.

 

The questions are only beginning and I've already seen some terse replies by bored business sellers to repeated questions of the same type.  I do hope that we're not going to see again the laughing at their concerns and confusion that were so often dismissed with an airy "just open a second bank account, it's so easy", back then.

 

If the ebay quote about "individual sellers" was just transposed from .com, ebay might be surprised by the reaction here and for how many it will be the final "line in the sand".  There was plenty of resistance to handing ebay NINOs in the US, where things are different, there will be as much here, if not more.

Message 13 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

Have you any idea what the HMRC data collection will even consist of?  Because the Government doesn't.

 

They are still trying to get to grips with OECD report, yet to determine exactlly what a 'platform' is and yet to decide if it covers all online retailing.  They certainly haven't made the decision whether to use Tax numbers or NI numbers!

Message 14 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers


@theelench wrote:

 

We've been told forever that NINOs should be kept as secret as possible, not handed out to any company that wants them for fear of identity theft.

 


As per GOV.UK an organisation acting as an authorised financial service provider can be provided with a NINO if one is requested. If you click the link to check if a provider is registered you will be taken to the FCA register where searching "eBay" will bring up their entry in the register.  

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 15 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

Not picking on ebay, just general observations, would you trust any company with such delicate personal details....i won't be, been to many leaks over the years.

Message 16 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

They can have mine.............................it's so old it's probably collectable and worth a fortune😄

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"Take deep breaths, it'll soon be gone"

Message 17 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

They already have my tax number and passport  number, as well as bank account number.

 

And definitely company number and VAT numbers, if they have one, from all the companies trading on eBay.

 

 

Message 18 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

Which I don't think is unreasonable when setting-up a business, I had to give HMRC the same info. (apart from a VAT number) when I became self-employed.  I was told that the info. would be required in advance and could, if I wished take my own security measures.

 

But how does ebay treat private sellers?  If the introduction of MP is anything to go by, there will be a "Help" page somewhere, followed by "Give us your bank account details or stop selling on ebay"

Ebay now has :

Name.

Address.

Phone no.

Bank and account details.

email address.

Photo I.D

and now wants a NINO.

 

Is there anything left that a seller can keep secret in an attempt to prevent identity fraud?

Is there anything more that a hacker needs to carry out identity theft?

And all this has been acquired on the off-chance that a minute number are money launderers, terrorists or tax evaders.

 

Meanwhile, where is our security?  As has been said "There have been too many leaks" for there to be much trust left and there is growing disquiet about the ever increasing data required for on-line security for the companies.  What they do with that data and who they share it with.

 

Yesterday I read an article from one of the National papers who quoted HMRC saying that unless one of the thresholds was reached, no sales details would be transferred.  That seemed very definite, (not we're still thinking about it) yet ebay is already saying that by next December they will require NINOs from every private seller?  Of course they will, so they can make money from it and share it with God knows who.

 

 

Message 19 of 29
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I wonder when ebay will ask for national insurance numbers

@theelench  "Of course they will, so they can make money from it and share it with God knows who."

 

If eBay were to do this the fines would be immeasureable and the penalties so severe it would probably be the end of eBay in the UK.  Those details can only be provided to HMRC at their request.

 

I am sure you will find that eBay provide the correct level of due diligence to ensure it is protected.  It is in their interest and survival to do so.

Message 20 of 29
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