100% refund for a broken radio case (possible?)

[richard1957]

Hi. I've bought a bakelite radio, which has a bakelite case. If the case arrives cracked (even if it's a hairline crack) is it possible to obtain a 100% refund?

Ok, it looks like such a radio would be classed as furniture by shipping firms, and I've been informed (Parcel2go)  that there would be no compensation for broken furniture , only  if it was lost.

But, what about Ebay's guarantee?  Would Ebay give a 100% refund if the case of a bakelite radio incurs a hairline crack during it's travels in the post?  Assuming that the package was packed "properly".  Thanks.

[richard1957]

I think if the radio was packed properly and it did suffer a broken case, Ebay may argue that this shows the shipping firm really did bash the parcel around, and they will not pay for such behaviour on the part of the shipping firm. Any thoughts on this?

[61stephenuk]

If the radio arrives damaged eBay are likely to side with the buyer (you) and give a refund it is then up to the seller to claim from whichever carrier they used id the item is covered for compensation

[papso22]

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@richard1957 wrote:

I think if the radio was packed properly and it did suffer a broken case, Ebay may argue that this shows the shipping firm really did bash the parcel around, and they will not pay for such behaviour on the part of the shipping firm. Any thoughts on this?

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Ebay don't 'pay' anything.  They would make the seller refund and then the seller has to claim, if possible, from the courier.  

All ebay is concerned with is a report by the buyer that the item is not as described, why it is not as described is irrelevant apart from dictating the choice in the drop down menu when opening a case. If the item was not listed with a crack and arrives with a crack, then it is not as described.

[richard1957]

It seems rather unfair on a seller, who takes care to package correctly, for breakages committed by a shipping firm, who only pays out on loss and not damage.  But, it appears then, that sellers take this risk all the time, that they will be made to pay out for breakage, despite the shipping firm causing the breakage.  I mentioned to a seller that I'd be wanting to be 100% refunded if the case of a radio got broken in shipping. His reply was "If you are worried about it getting damaged please arrange your own courier , we will do our best to pack it safely but will not accept responsibility should it get damaged ".  Does this statement fit with Ebay's guarantee, that Ebay will refund, if there is damage / item not as described? Well, Ebay may pay me, but I think the seller would not want to pay Ebay, and possibly justifiably so?  Because the shipper will likely refuse to pay. Thanks.

[richard1957]

We have a situation here, where I've bought relying on a guarantee from Ebay that if the item is damaged / not as described, I'll be refunded - in a situation where a seller has probably not been able to make a contract with a shipping firm to the effect they will refund on damage. The risk, it appears, of loss on damage, is going to fall on the seller, but it's not openly acknowledged in the sale. In theory, in a sense, it's not my problem, I'll get paid. But, it's a problem for the seller.  And so, the seller tells me to make my own contract of carriage.  Which I presume I'd be expected to do? Or does Ebay's guarantee impact on this?

[richard1957]

It looks like the Ebay guarantee stops a seller from stipulating that a buyer makes his/her own arrangements for shipping.  All the buyer has to do, is simply make a purchase. Is this correct? It's like if a seller does not want to risk being out of pocket, upon damage, then don't list the item.

[four_mid_able]

"but will not accept responsibility should it get damaged"

It's the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer in same condition as described.

If it gets damaged in transit (for whatever reason) the seller has to refund buyer in full and also pay for the return via a "not as described" claim made through Ebay via the dropdown box next to item on the purchases page.

It is then up to the seller to try and make a compensation claim from the courier ,the buyers refund is not dependant on the outcome of any claim the seller has to make.

If buyer arranges their own courier it's completely different.

[papso22]

You are massively overthinking this.

[richard1957]

It seems to me, that if a seller does not want to suffer loss upon damage of goods, he / she has to tell the buyer to make their own shipping arrangements. I guess whenever you see a seller mention the buyer make shipping arrangements, it's precisely to avoid the seller suffering loss upon damage. But, given the guarantee, can a seller insist the buyer contract for shipping? Not sure about that. But, whatever the case, whoever arranges the shipping, the seller is guaranteed to be refunded for the damage thru Ebay's guarantee scheme.

[richard1957]

I'm labouring under what Parcel2Go told me, that furniture if lost will attract a refund, but not damage. And my presumption that a radio is considered furniture. It's this that makes things difficult for a seller. If true.

[papso22]

The buyer is guaranteed a refund, not the seller.

[papso22]

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@richard1957 wrote:

I'm labouring under what Parcel2Go told me, that furniture if lost will attract a refund, but not damage. And my presumption that a radio is considered furniture. It's this that makes things difficult for a seller. If true.

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I repeat,  that's the seller's problem, not the buyer's.

[technthread]

As a seller the risk of a lost parcel hardly ever enters my mind, I can't remember the last time this happened to me. Similarly with damage, I trust my packaging.

I would concern me more if a buyer was pre-empting concerns about these things and was trying to figure out what I can and can't claim for with the carrier.

If you get a damaged item as a buyer it is really simple, return it for a full refund. Package it as best you can using the packaging the seller used to try to at least make sure it doesn't arrive back any more damaged than you received it. eBay will back you all the way as long as you follow the returns procedure and don't give the seller any reason to dispute what has gone on. Even then.. the buyer has the power here not the seller.

[1956glyn]

You are definitely overthinking this

IF a buyer sends their own Courier then no they are not covered under Ebays Money Back Guarantee.    This usually happens when a seller lists an item as collection in person only.   Some not all sellers in these circumstances will agree for the item to be collected by the buyers courier if the buyer cannot collect in person themselves.  The  Buyer as i say will not be protected by Ebay for any damage in transit.

OR......

If a seller lists an item with postage or sends it by courier arranged by themselves to the buyer then the SELLER is responsible for the item should it get lost or damaged in transit. 

In this senario the seller will be forced to refund the buyer (if they open an Ebay case).

The seller will then have to try and make a claim for compensation from whichever carrier they used.   This is nothing to do with the buyer.  Whether the sellers claim for compensation is successful or not is nothing to do with the buyer and should be of no concern to the buyer.

I hope the above helps make things a little bit clearer for you.

[richard1957]

Yes, I would get a refund. But, can a seller insist that a buyer makes shipping arrangements, or is making shipping arrangements an obligation that falls upon a seller? This is what is concerning me mostly now.

[richard1957]

As it stands, I think a seller can allow a buyer to arrange shipping, but cannot insist that they do.  Anyone know different?  In my case, orginally, the seller offered postage. Therefore, I need not have mentioned to the seller that I'd be expecting to be paid 100% price if the item received damage. Because of the guarantee, associated with the postal arrangements offered in the listing. But, I did mention to the seller about being 100% refunded, and that has drawn the response, in that case, I must arrange the shipping. Well, I think that is wrong, as a legality. I don't think a seller can insist I arrange for posting. I hope someone might be able to confirm this. Thanks.

[1956glyn]

Hi

If the seller said on the listing that they would post the item and there was a shipping method and cost on said listing........then the seller cannot insist you arrange your own courier.  Buyers buy based on all the information on a listing so long as its within Ebays rules for selling on the site.   Basically if a postage cost and shipping method is quoted on a listing then no the seller cannot insist you sort out your own shipping.

You buy the item and the seller should send the item to you in accordance with their shipping time again quoted on the listing.

With hindsight what you should have done is just buy the item.....let the seller ship the item to you and then if there was any issue with it.....eg broken just open a not as described case under Ebays Money Back Guarantee.

I think you unnerved the seller because you were contacting them about a lot of "what ifs".

That to me is a sign of anxiety  😞    (I have a T shirt with what if on it lol)

[richard1957]

In my case, under the terms of a contract, the seller put out to the world, that he would ship the item. As we know, that allows Ebay's guarantee to have effect, which is that upon damage I would be 100% refunded. As to a matter of the item being not as per description.  Yes, I've probably unnerved the seller by mentioning my expectation on refund, but nothing I've said changed anything - I'd be getting a full refund no matter what I might say to the seller (unless I said I would arrange shipping).  The thing is, if a seller was able to insist the buyer arrange shipping, that would be the same as insisting the seller forgo Ebay's guarantee. Which is quite a request to make.

[61stephenuk]

As 1956glyn says

You are definitely overthinking this

You have bought the item just pay for it and enjoy when it arrives in one piece or return it if it is damaged.

While it looks in good condition there appear to be a couple of grazes(nothing I would call major) in the images, you shouldn't expect a 90 year old vintage item to be in pristine condition