Declaring income and expenses for Universal Credit

[cashmere-favourites]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone else here has to declare their income and expenses every month for Universal Credit? I've just started as a business seller and am trying to work out the easiest way to get the information that I need to give to UC at the end of every month.

From looking in the Seller Hub, there are various reports that can be generated. I will also be looking at my bank statement. What I'm struggling with is that UC want the actual amount of income and expenses each month. However, when an item sells on Ebay, I get the payout two days later. So I don't think it's as simple as generating an Ebay report from 1st-30th/31st of the month, as anything that sells in the last two days of the month won't reach my bank account until the following month. So maybe I should generate a report from 1st- 28th/29th of the month? 

I also find it a bit confusing that the payouts are sent with the fees already deducted. Presumably my income is the total sale amount (including postage paid by the buyer), and then I deduct the fees and postage from that. So the amount of the payouts isn't my total income, just my net income. So I need to find the gross sales amounts and declare those as my income.

I hope this makes sense - I'm just trying to get my head around it all and how to do it! It's not easy trying to balance what's on an Ebay report with what's showing on my bank statement. Just wondering if anyone else is in this situation, and how you work out your monthly income and expenses to submit to Universal Credit? Thanks very much for any replies.

[technthread]

For your items bought 17 or 18 years ago I think you will struggle to get UC to accept those expenses as they weren't incurred during a UC reporting period. You can submit the numbers and hope they never query them, they probably won't, but if you were ever investigated it is a bit iffy I think, to be honest I'd write those expenses off and only claim for stock purchases made within the relevant UC dates of your claim. 

For your car boot purchases being made now, without receipts it is tricky, all you can do is keep extensive line by line records of what you purchased, ideally with pictures. ATM cash withdrawals that you can show on a bank statement as an added proof are useful but as they are unlikely to ever tally up exactly to what you spent they aren't concrete proof but it is all you can do. 

[rahada_91]

Hello , i am currently going through some thing similar i am afraid i am not able to comment on anything that you mentioned in your question and hope it must have been resolved as your post is few month old. I wonder if you can please comment if universal credit agrees to this ebay selling business as self employed or it has to be at a particular scale where generating a certain profit or what kind of information they ask at the initial stage. 
Best wishes

[technthread]

There is no issue with Universal Credit and eBay income in the sense that they accept it as valid (if that's what you mean), you can prove income and expenses and accurately report your income to them properly.

It would be best for you to speak to your contact at UC for clarification on where you stand and how it may affect your existing claim. The job centre usually have departments who specialise in self employment so you can ask to be referred. 

One area you may find helpful to read up on is their interpretation of 'gainfully self employed'. It all depends on your personal circumstances with them whether that will affect your UC. At the very least just make sure you keep them informed of what you are doing. 

[wyntersemporium]

I just put it down as expenses 

[litp*records]

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@gothicrosegallery wrote:

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@ojewellery wrote:

There are various schemes available that potentially you could get onto.  Its worth talking to the jobcentre plus about.  One used to be called New Deal, but now its rather more obscure.  Essentially in theory you get a one off 12 month window of opportunity to build a business as self employed.  Durring that window, you don't loose benefit, get help and advice with a business plan and staying on track so long as you do a monthly catch up with a work coach.  Hopefully this link is allowed:

https://www.gov.uk/moving-from-benefits-to-work/starting-your-own-business

It takes a little bit of faffing around to find the links relevant to you from the gov UK website, but potentially could give you a real boost by enabling you to reinvest most profits for the first year to find your feet and build a viable business moving forwards.

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And once that 12 month period is up, you must have a business that pays you minimum wage for the hours they detemine you must work. You don't bring in that after 12 months, your business is deemed not viable and you are told to cease self-employment, forced to job search and find traditional employment.

You are then not allowed another attempt at self-employment for another 5 years.

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This is not totally correct.

After 12 months if you are not deemed gainfully self-employed, you can still carry on with your self-employment (they can't force you to shut your business down) BUT you must also look for work and be applying for jobs.

If you do cease self-employment you are correct in that you can apply for another 1 year "business start up" period after 5 years, but you may need to present a business plan.

It is quite ridiculous that most businesses take at least 2 years to turn a profit. The government IMO is deliberately hampering people from starting businesses.  They'd rather you pack it in and get a job in a warehouse.

[nigel_paul_wright7557]

I just keep a record on my pc of income and outgoings.

Then upload them to UC website at date asked for.

If yo utell UC you are running a business they will automatically request the information from you.

[litp*records]

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@littleblackhen wrote:

I have to move onto UC from WTC in April, so Im researching now.  I sell antiques in antiques centres and online.  What I want to know is if I bought an item 17 years ago and it only just sells, how do I account for the cost of the item?  I wont have spent the money in the accounting period so can I still claim it as an expense?  I most often dont have any receipts for items I bought years ago, I have been doing this for 18 years and it started as a hobby back then, although I do have records going back around 14 years. I have around 90 boxes of items in my cellar dating back years.  Also I buy a lot at car boot sales and so dont get receipts, how do I account for these items?

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99% of my receipts are from charity shops and they just say "Bric a brac" or "other" or "mens/ladies" , that stuff could literally be anything!!  It's entirely done on honour, because there are virtually no receipts showing exactly what I have purchased to resell unless I bought that item from somewhere like Cash Converters or CEX (or indeed on Ebay)

If I had to explain to an auditor I'd have to say, well do you expect me to ask the elderly/disabled volunteers in the charity shop to itemise each individual item on my receipt (maybe 50 different CDs that I bought for ten quid).  That would be ridiculous.  

Just make sure that you are reinvesting your earnings into purchasing more items anyway.  The cruel thing is that UC will take money off you if you've earned a profit.  At least make full use of your start up year to reinvest all your profits to acquire as much stock as possible and this will help you in the long run.

[litp*records]

And for car boot sales well I would just not even put that down as a business purchase, it's very unlikely anyone at a boot sale is going to agree to write you a receipt (despite what George Osbourne once claimed - but he is living in a fantasy world) 

There's actually a lot of expenses I don't claim for which I should have... often 2 or 3 quid here and there but it all adds up.

[wyntersemporium]

This is what the job centre are saying to me as the business isn't paying you enough you need to apply for work. I'm back on Monday. 
what this woman doesn't know I am Unemployable. I have  chronic migraine, just been for a brain scan yesterday. Another migraine which numbs one side of the face up, meanwhile the other side has a banger of a migraine. 

my last work said I was never there from 2004-2016

[wyntersemporium]

I've been doing that, but what she wants to know  now. Where I buy my items from, (I buy all over the world ), who I sell to (told her I'm not giving her a list of who I sell my items to). 

[stormatic2015]

I feel you. In the same boat.

Mine said to me that I need to earn £1500 p/m after tax to be considered gainfully employed. Thats fine and managable back when I was selling a few years ago. Just recently started up again, so it is slow going.

I worked it out and If I was to get a full time job 9-5 with 1 hour break, thats 7 hours, times by 5 days thats 35 hours and at the minimum wage of £11.44  thats £1601.6 before Tax/NI. Dont think I need to finish to tell you that as a self employed person I need to earn more than someone working 9-5 to be considered employed. She also told me that if I dont meet the target they will lower the the amount they will send each month I dont meet it (Have to confirm that today). Please as other said, if you make too much they reduce it anyway.

So at what point is UC actually helping these that are on lower incomes by penalising them. I now see it as a scam to say "Well you now earning £1500, you dont need it." and cut you off.
I can understand why they want this information, some people may have been claiming without actually working or making pennies a month.

Sorry rant over. Regarding the income and expenses I just use the bank and excel, do in and outs and categorise them. I know eBay keep money until payout or there maybe an expense here or there, but eventually they will roll over to the next month etc... Dont need to be exact to the penny. 
Ironicly Im off to see my adviser right now so see if I have done the expenses/Income right.