he Iron Lady - Maggie

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie


Of course there is bound to be a lot of people there even many that weren't even born at the time.


 


They are happy to blame MT for everything that has happened over the past 50 years, she is a convenient scapegoat, made so by years of propaganda.



 


Interesting and true but here is the link as to why Thatcher and not say churchill as a stand up against our system....she was the PM who invited the media and its backers advertisement agencies and thus shareholders into politics to promote herself. Now surly as it's the very propaganda machine over the last 50 yrs that has turned this country into what we see today you could say 'Thatcher caused this' ...I do. 


This funeral is not even about seeing her off with respect its already turned into a media circus of divide and paper sales are no doubt up and the merchants a gathering in droves to cash in...


 


.if you liked her you would be asking for a quiet place to pay respect ,if you dislike her then you wish they had never mentioned her and she had a quiet do and was never heard of again. So yep propaganda and yep her fault.

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

ps.it's not quite 50 yrs though more 35 🙂

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

last one from me on MT and I will ask a question and if anyone can change my mind with a good answer I would be grateful as if not then 100% of the country should say no to paying out of tax.


 


How is the government entitled to use more tax revenue on this adventure instead of just using their own incomes (ie tax revenue)

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie


ps.it's not quite 50 yrs though more 35 🙂



 


MT is blamed for destroying the coal industry but the majority of pits were closed down before she came into power, Harold Wilson presided over the greatest job losses but she still gets the blame.


 


How's this for a touch of the Monty Python, 'What did the Romans ever do for us?' 🙂


 


“I met a man in his mid 60s from Morton. He started to call Thatcher all the names under the sun for no apparent reason — I had not remotely mentioned her — and said that the “only thing that woman had ever done for me was let me buy my council house and my British Gas shares”. He then spat on the pavement in memory of the former Prime Minister and walked off.’


 


 


 


 


 

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

So much of this hate which is put out by the leftie brigade is based more on the image created of her by the left than actual fact.


 


I have yet to hear any leftie tell me who was a better Prime Minister.


 


Gordon Brown ?


 


Tony Blair ?


 


Was Scargill better ? Jack Jones (in the pocket of the Russians) or what about our good friend Derek (Millionaire) Hatton who owns 7 companies selling overseas properties and private medical insurance - and he claimed to be a Socialist Worker !!


 


No, they can never offer a better alternative !!!

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

Bankhaunter


Ah yes, there was a man.... Haarold Wilson.


"The pound in your pocket will not be affected by inflation..."  :^O :^O.


 


"We must freeze wages..."  But NOT before giving himself a 20% salary increase, from £16,000.00 per year to over £20,000.00 p.a. a PHENOMINAL increase when he came to power.  With his pipe and Gannet raincoat.  Yeah, absolutely.  One of the lads - not!  Where the average wage was about £16.00 per week.  And yet he could do no wrong.  Benn was no better - went into a meeting wearing a flat cap and actually thought it would go down well by saying "Welcome comrades."  He was jeered off the stage.

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

"Tony Benn"


 


Don't you mean Viscount Stansgate ?

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie


 


 


Creeky my point was about arms dealing and Africa during Thatchers reign ,the manifesto says diplomatic way. Will read next manifesto now but however it's wrote by now I would not be voting them.Have you read or found the book 'to be or not to be' yet..you should have a read,most deff not fiction but very scary the real agenda of world leaders.


 


 


 



 


Spawn, do you have an exact title (apologies if I have missed it earlier in the thread), as I cannot find it on Amaz you-know-where? 😉

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie




 Whilst I agree with a lot of what Book has posted regarding MT and the unions none of it addresses the simple fact that had the unions behaved responsibly during the 1970s it is highly unlikely that MT would have been elected on the mandate she was.


http://www.conservative-party.net/manifestos/1979/1979-conservative-manifesto.shtml



 


Our five tasks are:


1)To restore the health of our economic and social life, by controlling inflation and striking a fair balance between the rights and duties of the trade union movement. nope - but one tick for inflation control.


2)To restore incentives so that hard work pays, success is rewarded and genuine new jobs are created in an expanding economy .3 million unemployed


3)To uphold Parliament and the rule of law.does not apply to police


4)To support family life, by helping people to become home-owners, raising the standards of their children's education, and concentrating welfare services on the effective support of the old, the sick, the disabled and those who are in real need. coffee-spray


5)To strengthen Britain's defences and work with our allies to protect our interests in an increasingly threatening world.by withdrawing HMS endurance which ultimately led to the Falklands conflict


 


She failed on all 5.


 


There's lots of external factors which influenced outcomes & perceptions – Iranian oil crisis, the most adverse weather in decades, rise of Murdoch’s influence and jingoism etc. Equally, you have to ask why unions became so powerful - 13 years of Conservative rule had rigged the game in favour of bosses. This is one of the problems of FPTP back then imo – it helped polarise the UK's political discourse along cold war lines away from consensus and created extremes - thus making negotiations more confrontational.


 


Barbara Castle was the best leader Labour never had imo. Fiery, passionate, an inspiration to millions of women. She got the Equal Pay Act through in a parliament full of misogynists. She was not frightened to make unpopular decisions and carry the can for them (Beeching). She was defiant towards unions when they were being silly, but negotiated well with them when they weren't.  Despite possessing hawkish traits, unlike Thatcher, she had compassion and a conscience. If Labour had got behind her and fully supported "in Place of Strife", I dare say the 1979 would have worked out much different:


 


"Now, more than ever, we need Labour's traditional values of cooperation, social justice, and fairness. This manifesto restates these Labour principles in an action programme with a strong sense of the future. They appeal to all our people - young and old.


The world is changing rapidly. New industrial nations are rising to challenge our key industries on which British jobs and living standards depend.


 


The Labour Government is taking firm action to equip Britain to adapt to these changes and to seize new opportunities. And we will take great care to protect working people and their families from the hardships of change.


 


But although the 1980s will present a tough challenge, this country will have many things in our favour. North Sea oil offers a golden prospect as do our reserves of natural gas and coal. We must use these resources wisely to plan our future to create new wealth, new jobs, and to look after the family, the elderly, and those in need"


 


http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1979/1979-labour-manifesto.shtml


 


Unfortunately, this was spend on tax cuts for the wealthy, a mini housing bubble, and "subsidising" the very industry that "holds us to ransom" today. We could have got Norway - what we got was Canary Wharf, a side-supply timebomb, and a nation where a large section of individuals don't give a stuff beyond their own front door.


 


MT was only re-elected thanks to a split opposition, an avoidable war (due to her own govt’s incompetence/shock doctrine), and a gullible section of the populous willing to fulfil the Sun’s guide on how to belch the national anthem. She could also have also been removed in 87, but that’s when the oil & mini property bubble really kicked in, as well as the “selfish generation” being wrapped up in their own little bubbles oblivious and indifferent to the devastation she had caused elsewhere.  


 


The blame game can be deflected towards Scargill, Labour, the unions, the SWP, Kinnock, Owen, Leon Trotsky, Citizen Smith, yet the arguments only implicate how they were indirectly responsible.  This does not excuse the damage Thatcher directly caused.. It wasn't unwashed loony leftie hippies protesting against the EEC, globalisation, and nuclear arms who spunked the "trickle down" from the oil money on military coups, cocaine and hookers.

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

Police abusing Sus Laws became more prevalent during early 80s.


 


The Sus Law (Vagrancy Act 1824) was repealed in 1981.


 


2)To restore incentives so that hard work pays, success is rewarded and genuine new jobs are created in an expanding economy .3 million unemployed


 


3 Million at the start of MT's government, 1.6 million at the end.


 


She (Harriot Harman) was defiant towards unions when they were being silly, but negotiated well with them when they weren't.


 


But was brushed aside by those unions who made sure, with the help of their lackeys in Parliament, their power was not going to be challenged.

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

Banks,


 


There were nowhere near 3 million unemployed when Thatcher came to power, That was the worse total DURING here Premiership


 


!.6 million at the end ? That was gained by manipulating the figures , by lots of means , including the useless YTS scheme etc etc


Her Government were the first to stick many on Incapacity Benefit, to get them off the Dole figures.


 


 


Maggie Thatche, sent a task force to protect British Sovereignty in the Falklands


But signed away a good part of British sovereignty in Northern Ireland with the Anglo Irish Agreement


 


 


She destroyed our Manufacturing base, exactly what our Country is crying out for Now


(and don't publish the discredited manipulating of statistics, about BLiars time)

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

"3 Million at the start of MT's government, 1.6 million at the end."


 


The figures below are the ONS yearly average unemployment figures  for the 80's.
For 6 of those years the number out of work and claiming was about or above 3 million


It was often well under a million in the early 70's and even with the huge shock of oil price increases, it never went above 1.5 million
The average unemployment level between 55-79, was some like 3% where as between 80 and 95 it rose to about 3 times that



1980's number out of work and claiming

1,794.717   1980

2,733,800   1981

3,119. 019  1982

3,104,660   1983

3,159,821   1984

3,271,232   1985

3,292,867   1986

2,953, 379  1987

2,370,383   1988

1,798,713   1989




"The Sus Law (Vagrancy Act 1824) was repealed in 1981."


Most people have an idea what they mean by sus, and it's in the application, and not the Act or common name under which it hides

The Vagrancy Act was replaced by the Criminal Attempts Act at the same time
The Act abolished the offence of "loitering with intent" under the Vagrancy Act 1824
It  created criminal offences pertaining to attempting to commit crimes. It abolished the common law offence of attempt. It didn't address the  subjective grounds for stopping, which differed in application from force to force and  didn't   require recording.  


They  repealed the old Act because the allegation was that police used it in part to specifically target ethnic minorities in sometimes very weak cases

In 1983 a Home Office report identified the controversial nature of police powers to stop and search.
(note the date)

1984
PACE determined that there must be an objective basis for police suspicion to stop and search - such as reliable information received from a member of the public, or that the person stopped had been seen acting suspiciously.
It also stated that “personal factors”, such as mode of dress or skin colour, were not sufficient grounds to stop and search. Section 3 of PACE placed a duty on police officers carrying out a search to make a written record of the procedure and to inform the individual concerned of their right to obtain a copy. However, the Act placed no obligation on police to record circumstances where an individual was stopped but not searched.

In 1999, the Macpherson Inquiry report into the murder of Stephen Lawrence stated that all police stops should be recorded, a recommendation that was finally implemented in April 2005



 


I think there is an early 80's or thereabouts sketch with Griff Rhys Jones and Rowan Atkinson regarding something similar on this matter?

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

Constable Savage!


 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y

Message 253 of 275
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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

Thank you Angela.

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

!.6 million at the end ? That was gained by manipulating the figures , by lots of means , including the useless YTS scheme etc etc


 


There are frequent accusations about manipulating figures and of course figures are always manipulated by both sides of the argument.


 


As for the YTS scheme like so many similar schemes up to the present day, they are always abused as there is seldom proper oversight.


I did actually try to get a YTS trainee, or YOP, I can't quite remember, we had an opportunity for a young person who if, after training, proved to be capable, to end up with a job but apparently we didn't qualify although I've no idea why not.


 


I remember the inflation of the 70s when, being self employed, I was lucky that my work increased sufficiently to keep pace although by 1980 I was no better off in real terms than I was in 1971 and I did have to do a lot more work for it so voting for a person who was determined to change things was an obvious course of action.


 


I also welcomed the poll tax, I saw my annual payment drop from £700 to £250, however I can see why it promoted so many objections.


 


One reason I suspect may be that, like shops did with decimalisation, councils used the opportunity to make disguised increases and another where those living in rented property received a demand for tax where previously the landlord was paying rates, said landlord getting a nice bonus not passed to the tenant in the form of a rent reduction.


 


If everything MT did was so bad, why haven't governments since made any changes, even the preventing of money gained from council house sales used to build more which I can't recollect anyone supporting, hasn't been reversed by real efforts to sufficiently increase the housing stock and which has largely contributed to today's benefit problems.


 


Sus law? From the 1979 Royal Commission efforts were a continuous process to deal with the problem of stop and search, unfortunately anti terrorist legislation is in danger of putting us back where we started if it hasn't already.

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

''If everything MT did was so bad, why haven't governments since made any changes'' 


 


nail on the head for me bank ,my personal opinion on that is because she has never left power (obviously not in person) but her persona.ie all since her use her do what ever you like as a template and use the media and advertising to brainwash.


 


Not everything she did was bad at all ,Bliar did much worse,however her bad for me beats everyone else who ever held the role hands down. All this she closed pits vs she won war malarkey just isnt hitting the nail on the head of what she actually caused,as it happens she herself knew her bad decisions had global effects and If she were here to be voted in now I believe we then would have seen a better MT and a good PM as lessons were definitely learned by her.


The problem is the rest of them like having her style politics,not the style she would have used today. imo


 


caution 🙂


Apologies for posting on MT again as I said I wouldn't ,but I really was just letting caution opinion (hi btw) know I will put details of book on later...Written by a professor who was one of a few tasked by the government in the sixties to create social engineering programs to stop mankind self destructing itself and bleeding the planet dry...spot on all the way through my life as watched it all in action .....Only prob are the writer personal opinions as he likes God and uses him as example to his thinking sometimes,but the facts are very scary facts on why the system works like it does.

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

hi


 


 


 


thumbs up


 


Any god bits will wind me up (;-)), but, from your description, I think I'd be interested in a quick dekko at the rest.

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

I wish I hadnt read it as its like being in a book (sci fi film in the making lol )

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

ps yep the god bits were hard to swallow and made me wonder ,just how much of what the big plan on control comes from rational good thinking and what comes from 'god says' if they were all god heads on board. As I said I found it quite scary as it's obviously in practice .

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Re: he Iron Lady - Maggie

pps sorry for divert all...back to beloved Maggie 🙂

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